Girls, lower your standards

[appendy]

As far as "attractiveness" goes, i think this idea is pretty meh. it's all about maturity. Someone who is immature and impulsive is someone who is likely to ruin a relationship and cheat, someone who has their crap together and wants something serious is less likely to cheat. I wish i could say it's an age thing, however some men never grow up and i totally didnt read the article ooooopsies

I wish I knew how to quit you Lazz (jk I don't)

Your post reminds me of the Wife of Bath's prologue and tale (Canterbury Tales, high school reading FTW!!). I encourage every woman read this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also Disney makes a horrible example of relationships in that a woman basically has to find a prince while she's lying on her back (sleeping beauty, snow white) or has to undergo some sort of transformation/lifestyle change (mermaid has to dump the tail and her family for her man, Belle has to leave her family to live with an abusive man that she believes she can change). So the problem with the princesses is a lot more complex than with the males, who just need to be hot and rich.

Also I was in a relationship once where my BF didn't trust ME because OTHER guys thought I was attractive. Okay if someone tells me I'm pretty, I'm not going to run off with them. Please give me some credit (puts on All This And Brains Too t-shirt).

[Boleslav]

Also Disney makes a horrible example of relationships in that a woman basically has to find a prince while she's lying on her back

This is not the case in Sleeping Beauty though, which is part of the reason why Edward is the best option from the Disney princes.

Also, +rep for the Wife of Bath reference. I like it when people say things on the forums that are intelligent.

[XxflamesxX]

Cinderella was not on her back. She was a Lower class and was still chosen by the prince, even when he found she was poor.

[appendy]

Cinderella was not on her back. She was a Lower class and was still chosen by the prince, even when he found she was poor.

Well yeah, but it wasn't her personality that initially attracted the prince, she first had to have a magical makeover to stand out at the ball. And she sure ran outta there like hell at midnight, didn't she?

[Skirata]

This is not the case in Sleeping Beauty though, which is part of the reason why Edward is the best option from the Disney princes.

Also, +rep for the Wife of Bath reference. I like it when people say things on the forums that are intelligent.

How 'bout neg rep for a Wife of Bath reference? Everyone knows that women want to be second-class citizens. That story just tries to inspire needless ambition.

[Mati2]

The Wife of Bath's tale/prologue are too complicated to fit any straight up model. On the one hand, the Wife of Bath owns a brewery and has had five husbands (very progressive, for her time), on the other she chooses to remain with an abusive spouse who renders her deaf just because he apologizes. The tale too raises a lot of red flag ... in the end, rapist gets a wife who is sexy, wise and loyal ... what?

[appendy]

The Wife of Bath's tale/prologue are too complicated to fit any straight up model. On the one hand, the Wife of Bath owns a brewery and has had five husbands (very progressive, for her time), on the other she chooses to remain with an abusive spouse who renders her deaf just because he apologizes. The tale too raises a lot of red flag ... in the end, rapist gets a wife who is sexy, wise and loyal ... what?

The "old hag" who transforms into a "trophy wife" might not be so literal if you read and understood the prologue - The wife of bath went on a long rant about the complaints that men have with the women they end up with; think of how this type of man would call their spouse old hag, old lady, ball and chain, b*Tch, ect ect... criticizing men's meticulous selections when it comes to livestock, property, and business but somehow they select a woman that they'll never be happy with. Why are they bad decision makers then when it comes to women?

Women's ultimate rule was an element in the wife's story - if you remember it was the QUEEN (not the king) who got to decide the fate of the rapist. Ultimate rule was the answer to 'what do women desire the most.' Ultimate rule is what the old hag got in the relationship when the man allowed her to take on one of the two forms 'ugly and faithful' or 'beautiful and unfaithful' (of course, when she got her way, she chose beautiful and faithful). Remember - she gave him the option first but he handed the decision making over to her

But you're right that there is a lot of... um. dysfunction with that firebrand wife of bath.

[Mati2]

Did you read the modern version or the original middle english? Even though this is going to totally derail the discussion, now I just have to talk about this and I have my beautiful, beaten up copy of The Canterbury Tales right next to me.

The "old hag" who transforms into a "trophy wife" might not be so literal if you read and understood the prologue - The wife of bath went on a long rant about the complaints that men have with the women they end up with; think of how this type of man would call their spouse old hag, old lady, ball and chain, b*Tch, ect ect... criticizing men's meticulous selections when it comes to livestock, property, and business but somehow they select a woman that they'll never be happy with. Why are they bad decision makers then when it comes to women?

You are right that it's not as simple as I quickly phrased it in my last post. Yes, she criticizes men, but there is a huge disconnect between her actions and her advice. She stays with her last husband despite him hitting her so hard she "in the floor [she lay as [if she] were dead" (Chaucer WBP ll. 796). Her objective at the end of the prologue is equality in marriage - not such a model for today's modern women. Yes, her husband promises in the future (after fearing he's actually killed her) to let her "keep eek myn estaat" (Chaucer WBP ll. 821), but he's already hit her so hard she's deaf. The Wife of Bath's tale is such a great character because she's complex. But Chaucer definitely was not a straight up protofeminist like Pizan by any stretch of the imagination.

Women's ultimate rule was an element in the wife's story - if you remember it was the QUEEN (not the king) who got to decide the fate of the rapist. Ultimate rule was the answer to 'what do women desire the most.' Ultimate rule is what the old hag got in the relationship when the man allowed her to take on one of the two forms 'ugly and faithful' or 'beautiful and unfaithful' (of course, when she got her way, she chose beautiful and faithful). Remember - she gave him the option first but he handed the decision making over to her

The King gives the Queen permission and gives her the knight's fate as a kind of benevolent gift ("And yaf hym to the gueene, al at hir wille / To chese wheither she wolde hym save or spille / The queene thanketh the kyng with al hir myght" (Chaucer WBT ll. 896-899)). She still defers to male power. The knight has to go on a quest to determine what women want. The hag tells him they want equality in marriage (resonance with the prologue?). In the end, he at first RESISTS marrying the hag and reacts with repulsion. She has to remind him that he promised to give her whatever she desired in exchange for the answer that saved his life. IMO, he lets her chose out of a sense of duty/honor to his oath, rather than because he believes in the woman's ability to chose.

But you're right that there is a lot of... um. dysfunction with that firebrand wife of bath.

Yes there is and I could go on forever, but I fear we're boring everyone else.

[Morgan le Fay]

First off you have physical attraction. Then as the relationship develops & you get to know one another then that attraction turns in to love.

That's the dream the ideal we all search for. Society tells us that we should be looking for a handsome or beautiful mate. The human psyche is such that we always look over the fence at the greener grass. We all want that fit guy or stunning girl.

Those that are more embolden will flirt to tempt the object of your desire away from their current partner. So speaking from a sociological stand point I believe there is some truth in that study. I as a person would hope it wasn't true.

[appendy]

Wow ^_^ well I certainly don't have a copy by my side. I've had to read it in at least 3 different literature classes (including the old english) so I'm drawing from what I remember. However I do recall the wife of bath not being a victim entirely with the last husband (not to be confused with saying that violence is earned [it's not!], but she wasn't exactly cooperative).

Being a knight (of King Arthur I believe) he was obligated to follow through with what he agreed to. I believe that was the sense of duty but the option he was given ugly/faithful or beautiful/unfaithful was kind of a dilemma. Either choice would have been bad for the knight which is why he opted out. But that is my take anyway and yes we're probably boring people.

Back to the subject I really don't know how you can judge attractiveness - I know in the article they had face experts or something but then you're only going by... what? facial symmetry? So I don't trust the results of the article. There is a beauty standard, yes, but attractiveness is also subjective.