Everything about spying

[Oss Spy]

This is primarily for Age I simply because I don't play it and cannot speak for it. However, I assume that most principles will apply for Age II.

Note that this is NOT FINISHED YET. The reason I made it so big is so that you can understand it isn't done. I know most of you realize it, but there's that small percentage that just don't get it. Please don't be that percent. You'll make me sad.

Note that I will likely expand on certain topics and add in others as they come to mind. One cannot write a guide for an hour and expect it to be good. The guide should be finished within a week. If not then you'll need to be patient.


Spying- How to do it and how to protect yourself

I. Foreword
II. Definition
III. Uses
IV. Execution (Under construction)
V. Protection (Under construction)
VI. Closing (Under construction)



I. Foreword

Although most people dislike spying, it is foolish to think that nobody does it. It is equally foolish to think that it won't happen to you. Most people who hold a hate for it are often the ones who didn't do it properly or have been on the receiving end of a successful spy. The bottom line is that it WILL happen. You have one real option- accept it and prevent it. Quite honestly, you wouldn't be reading this if you didn't need help (unless you're trolling.) You do have another option. However, most people don't enjoy losing wars and will do anything to ensure an absolute victory over the enemy. You have to remember that this is a WAR game. You're PLAYING a WAR game. People who cry over war don't deserve to play a war game. As such, the people who complain about spies don't deserve to complain when they did nothing to prevent it. It's your choice. You can use your tools or you can not use them. It's your alliance. Not mine. Oh, and throughout this guide I may refer to any act involving spies as 'Intelligence' simply because it's hard to spy on your own alliance to protect it.



II. Definition of Spying

You would be shocked to find out how many people will brand you a spy over something silly. However, my definition of spying is to engage in any act of secrecy towards another alliance, friend or foe, in order to gain intelligence about what the other party is up to or to gain a clearer picture of diplomacy and war. You can have spies to gather coordinates or simply see what your 'ally' is not telling you. Be sure to note that most people will not take kindly to spying, no matter what your intentions were, although I may be wrong. I'll go more in depth later.



III. Uses of Spying

1. Gathering coordinates
If you have ever fought a war and not know where the enemy is, then you'll know just how much of a pain it can be to have any success. Gathering coordinates is very helpful.

2. Diplomacy information
Is your ally taking steps to be friendly with your worst enemy? Well, that is something that I would certainly like to know. If your ally doesn't mention anything to you about it (provided that they know they're an enemy) then you may have a problem on your hands. The first step to losing a war is losing your allies or gaining new enemies. It's always nice to know when the storm is coming, rather than to find out real fast that it's here.

3. Psychological warfare
You may be superior to your enemy but if your enemy isn't being defeated quickly enough then you might want to consider this. A good example of not defeating a weaker enemy would be the American-Vietnam conflict or the Russian-Afghanistan conflict. Bleed your enemies dry and they will lose their will to fight. You don't want that to happen. You fight wars to win, not to leave the enemy alone. Breaking apart your enemy is a fast way to end a war. There will be more on this later.

4. Finding enemy spies.
Perhaps X and Y are fighting each other. Both X and Y have spies in each other's alliance. However, X's spy is doing so well to integrate with Y that Y asks X's spy to spy on X. If X's spy can get Y to tell who their spy is then Y will no longer have a spy in X. Take your time to figure out what I just said.



IV. Execution

This section is divided into subsections:

1. Coordination

Intelligence gathering, while easiest to organize alone, often requires a joint effort with multiple people involved. Ideally, an operation will require only one or two people…however, you will find that using a small number of people is difficult. The people who oversee the work need to be organized- this often involves a great deal of recordkeeping. Somebody will have to do the grunt work and recording. You will need an “inside man”, someone who is trusted, dependable, and active. More often, you will need inside men, rather than man. This is to monitor all activity possible- 24/7 is preferable, but often not possible. They will have to record (video is best but pictures are acceptable) any important conversation that they see so that you can analyze data later.

2. Friends & Ranks

If you are infiltrating an alliance you will have to make friends. Or, rather, you will have to be friends to them. You need to have someone you can contact that will give you any information you miss out on. Good friends will answer more questions without getting suspicious, and better friends are more likely to side with you and share your point of view. This usually involves gaining a rank within the alliance, which obviously takes some time. A combination of both is ideal; often times gaining ranks will make you seem like a much more attractive friend. Often, being a high rank and being powerful will give you even more influence over people. Gaining ranks is particularly important; if you‘re at the proper rank you have the option to kick everyone from the alliance if necessary. Please know that this is a last resort because the alliance will KNOW that spies are involved and will very quickly be able to re-form. Please, please, PLEASE remember not to get emotionally attached to the ‘friends’ that you made in the alliance! This will lead to hesitation in your actions…which will lead to you having to make a decision. Do NOT be forced to make a decision. You are here for your alliance. Your loyalty lies with them; not with the people you are trying to defeat.

3. Timing

Timing is everything. You can reinforce someone’s city and leave the alliance, send one attack, and you’ll hit them with a large number of troops instantly…or you can reinforce them and nom-nom all of their food. It doesn’t matter what you decide; knowing what to do doesn’t help if you can’t get in. Spies should be in the alliance BEFORE the war starts. Somebody who has been in for a week is much less conspicuous than someone who joined shortly before or after the war. You also need to time your actions- if you’re going to kick everyone you can you want to make sure few people are online and many of yours are online. You’ll need to know where the most powerful cities are and be able to clean them out quickly…it’s up to you if you want to NPC it or use it as another war city. It all depends if you managed to clear the area or not.

What to gather:
1. Coordinates
2. Approx troop count (per city)
3. Usual login times

It’s best to get these things before war is declared…when people log in to see a flashing bird, a single mail, and an odd shortage of cities, they’re not going to know what hit them.

Whew. That was a long section. There are likely to be a few things that don’t make sense, as I wrote a similar guide to another online game. I edited some things so that it would fit for Evony but I know I didn’t get everything. Let me know if I miss anything.


V. Protection

With war will come enemies and with enemies will come war. It’s more or less a giant circle, unless if your pacifist…pacifism is interesting actually. The people who preach pacifism aren’t often powerful and they reject pacifism as soon as they are powerful. Regardless of your case, you’re going to make enemies. Undoubtedly these enemies will want your coordinates…and unless you’ve been painting them all across their war reports, they’re likely going to get somebody inside your alliance to find them. When you’re at war you shouldn’t accept ANYONE into your alliance for the first few weeks. Junk accounts with low prestige are obvious…high prestige accounts are too good to be true…and average accounts are unsuspecting. You’ll never know who is going to try to spy on your alliance. Make sure people are active and not lurking the chat. People who are online often but not talking are probably spies. People who are less active and overly chatty about what’s going on in the alliance are probably spies. Then again, it could be that they’re simply an anti-social recluse or can’t get online and like to know what’s going on.

There isn’t a whole lot to be said about protection that can’t be put into a list.

1. Be suspicious of everyone but don’t make your suspicions known except for trusted leaders.
2. Don’t rank anyone Presbyter who you don’t trust completely.
3. Don’t rank anyone Vice-Host who doesn’t understand not to declare war or annul.
4. Make sure your officers know not to recruit anyone during wartime. If this happens you should kick both of them.
5. Make sure people have their embassies closed to reinforcement unless they need them direly.
6. Look out for people who are online too often.

That’s all I can think of for protection. However, you should know that not a single one of these things is definite. Ultimately it is your decision if you think somebody is a spy or not. While purging many people is a surefire way to remove any spies, it’s probably not the best for your members. In the end you’re going to have to rely on your best judgment.



That should be everything my friends.

[Reasoner]

Most people who hold a hate for it are often the ones who didn't do it properly or have been on the receiving end of a successful spy.


Quite honestly, you wouldn't be reading this if you didn't need help (unless you're trolling.)

I have a few problems with this thread. I find spying somewhat of a cheap shot if you will, it's part of the game that yes is allowed but it is a shallow tactic. I dont hate it because I was on the receiving end of one or didn't do it successfully It's just a pathetic way to try to win a war, say.

And that logic is just stupid. So I am either a troll or looking for help automatically if I look in this thread? No other possible reason to look in this thread ?

And if it matters, I know this isn't finished but my post does not relate to whether the guide is done or not.

[Oss Spy]

I have a few problems with this thread. I find spying somewhat of a cheap shot if you will, it's part of the game that yes is allowed but it is a shallow tactic. I dont hate it because I was on the receiving end of one or didn't do it successfully It's just a pathetic way to try to win a war, say.

And that logic is just stupid. So I am either a troll or looking for help automatically if I look in this thread? No other possible reason to look in this thread ?

And if it matters, I know this isn't finished but my post does not relate to whether the guide is done or not.

So you're not trolling, but yet you're here simply to criticize my thread? If I were here to argue for or against spying I would post something in the General Forum. There, we could have a debate over spying. However, what you're doing is attacking something that happens regardless if you like it or not. You have no idea of the true difficulty of spying. Anyone can pass on coordinates. Anyone can farm and have a massive army provided with enough time. It takes a truly gifted person to tear an alliance apart from within. How is it shallow?

I honestly don't care if you like it or not. I also don't care what your opinion is. I'm here to educate people about spying, how it's done, and how to protect themselves from it. However, I can assume you didn't pay attention to that part and only focused on the negative aspect.

[Reasoner]

So you're not trolling, but yet you're here simply to criticize my thread? If I were here to argue for or against spying I would post something in the General Forum. There, we could have a debate over spying.


You have no idea of the true difficulty of spying. Anyone can pass on coordinates. Anyone can farm and have a massive army provided with enough time. It takes a truly gifted person to tear an alliance apart from within. How is it shallow?

I honestly don't care if you like it or not. I also don't care what your opinion is. I'm here to educate people about spying, how it's done, and how to protect themselves from it. However, I can assume you didn't pay attention to that part and only focused on the negative aspect.

If you make a guide, it does not really mean you can't have a discussion on the topic being taught.

It's deception. I am no foreigner to deception, it's not that I think it isnt difficult but that I think it's shallow. I think it is shallow because you're gathering information from the inside, it just seems to me that you can't win a war otherwise and try to go through a loop hole, gaining info that you should just find the old fashioned way...

If you dont care about my opinion or if I care at all then you need not reply, but you did. Defending off spies ? That would just be common sense to where to put trust in , not to talk in alliance chat of wars etc, it's really nothing new to a host that did it more then once...

[Oss Spy]

If you make a guide, it does not really mean you can't have a discussion on the topic being taught.

It's deception. I am no foreigner to deception, it's not that I think it isnt difficult but that I think it's shallow. I think it is shallow because you're gathering information from the inside, it just seems to me that you can't win a war otherwise and try to go through a loop hole, gaining info that you should just find the old fashioned way...

If you dont care about my opinion or if I care at all then you need not reply, but you did. Defending off spies ? That would just be common sense to where to put trust in , not to talk in alliance chat of wars etc, it's really nothing new to a host that did it more then once...

You do not understand the nature of the matters you're trying to discuss. That being said...I can see that you're an intelligent person. However, you do not understand why spying is important, the fact that it happens, and why you must defend yourself.

You're welcome to attack it all you want. However, as I've said before, it's YOUR alliance, not mine. And what do you mean by "gaining info that you should just find the old fashioned way..."? If you're talking about coords...you must realize that it's impractical to comb THAT much of the map. It's true that I do not care about your opinion. I do, however, care that you are attacking what I say.

[Deathslayr]

With every guide written, you must expect criticism of some form. Whether it is justified or not is irrelevant, all guides will have some of it. While I personally agree with Reasoners opinion of spying being low, and cheap, that doesn't change things, or change the fact that it happens. While I do not approve of it, that does not however take away the right for any member to write about it. If they wish to they can.

But if you write a guide, especially about a subject such as this, where this is a very big line between the two sides of it, the two different opinions, expect criticism, and expect people to attack it as you call it. You should have expected that.

[Baldyhun]

Legit guide but expect 5000 " spying is wrong!!" posts

[BadManStor]

Legit guide but expect 5000 " spying is wrong!!" posts

" spying is wrong!!"
yay i am 1st person to say it... another 4999 people to go...
the guide is just stating what has been said in the guide's before..
theres another guide about spying, which is pretty detailed, and has already had the 5000 " spying is Wrong"...




BMS

[MetalX]

only ppl who say spying is wrong r the nubs who leave for the new server aftr a month in...everyone knows knowledge in power...if u spied or had someone in ur alliance with one ud realise how truthfully usefull it is. and its pretty simple if u know u have a spy why u keep putting ur coords and troop counts in a/c then going and crying about getting smashed while u sleep lmao

[Emma6]

when i am a host i can easially expect to have spies no matter what because they are completly unaviodable...you just have to make sure that you do everything properly and try to humilate the spy at every corner. as for using spies to find cords thats BULL- a couple hours of combing a land and you can find whomever you like.