Merit Pay for teachers

[desk]

First of all, teachers don not have the authority to expel students. Administrators deal out those kind of punishments.

I guess it was poor wording on my part. Teachers will want to remove students that may create a challenge to them by classifying them as students with special needs and trotting them off to a different class. You can search to see how often this happens.

Second of all, you shouldn't condemn a system because it could be abused or exploited. That hinders progress, you should simply find a way to discourage or eliminate the possibilities of exploit.

No, I condemn it because it is a system that is ripe for abuse so easily. Again, I'll use charter schools as a prime example. Most charter schools are highly discriminatory in how they select their student population and yet do not score on average much better than other schools in the surrounding area, this is done at a much higher cost as well.

Giving pay to teachers based on better student test scores will achieve similar results as that of charter schools as the same incentives are present. Though a good idea at first, it does not pan out so well once put into practice.

And third of all, this would actually end up benefitting many kids not very well off. Wealthy children often have many opportunities impoverished children go without. Confidence is one, for instance, but so is the access to well trained teachers.

Kids in poorer areas do not really have a "confidence" issue, they typically do not have access to any programs to better themselves (both free and private) mainly because they are poor. They have many issues but most are brought upon by their socioeconomic factors.


There actually is a much better system that is ignored for reasons i won't go into. Again, you can look this up but simply reducing class sizes is a proven way to increase the quality of education. I'm sure there are other ways that do not jeopardize the education value of the more vulnerable students, but merit pay is not one in my eyes.

[Boleslav]

First of all, at least in the US, education has never been fully funded. Teacher pay should be increased (as much as doubled) because right now it's not reflective of the workload. This should go hand in hand with increased education funding overall. On top of the increased pay, there should be various stipends that are awarded based on a variety of state and locally chosen criteria.

[jorbaud]

First of all, at least in the US, education has never been fully funded. Teacher pay should be increased (as much as doubled) because right now it's not reflective of the workload. This should go hand in hand with increased education funding overall. On top of the increased pay, there should be various stipends that are awarded based on a variety of state and locally chosen criteria.

Do you know how much debt that would cause(doubling their pay)?

You are/were a teacher right?

[Boleslav]

Do you know how much debt that would cause(doubling their pay)?

You get what you pay for. Make the profession much higher paying, and you get better professionals. What is more important than education when it comes to funding?

[jorbaud]

You get what you pay for. Make the profession much higher paying, and you get better professionals. What is more important than education when it comes to funding?

Look here: http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d...s/dt09_075.asp

Public school teachers already get far more than private. If anything public should get the same as private to be equal with the private sector.


Also, you didn't answer my teacher question.

[jorbaud]

Well, a lot of private schools mismanage their money and buy silly things that don't enhance student learning at all, but impress parents on guided tours. I went to such a school.

We had laptops, ipods, manicured lawns and a pool ... but half of our teachers were terrible. Retrospectively, I would much rather have had 100% good teachers as the one thing that made the most impact on me for the future was my superstar history teacher from 8th-10th grade. The computers were just distracting, we all hated the lawn because we were not allowed to sit on it and honestly, middle school aged kids do not need state of the art gym equipment.

Edit because it's relevant: I went to an international school. A lot of the great teachers we had left because they couldn't afford the rent to support a family on the salary they were given. It was ridiculous.

Half the teachers in public schools are crappy as well so it is no different. State of the art gym equipment is better than old gym equipment that could easily break and seriously hurt or kill a student.

Public teachers complain they do not make enough money to support a family even though they get far more so...

[Boleslav]

Public school teachers already get far more than private.

That difference isn't far more, and since public school teachers have to meet more legal requirements and benchmark criteria than private school teachers, I think it is reasonable for them to have pay reflecting that.

From time to time one hears the argument that "public sector X employees get paid more than private sector Y employees" but the reason for this is that the public sector employees have generally higher education levels and so receive higher remuneration. There's no way you can compare between public and private in education when a private school teacher doesn't need to have taken a single education class or have received certification.

[Gillivray]

Look here: http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d...s/dt09_075.asp

Public school teachers already get far more than private. If anything public should get the same as private to be equal with the private sector.


Also, you didn't answer my teacher question.

Very good point! Private school teachers make significantly less than the public ones in my area, and I would NEVER allow my children to attend the public school system here because of the incredibly sub-par education they would receive.

My children are receiving an excellent education and being taught by teachers who are woefully underpaid at the top private school in the area. I think one of the main differences is the resources available to the private school system over that of the public schools.

Keep in mind when evaluating a teacher's salary compared to another profession, teachers in the U.S. work only 9 months out of the year. How many other jobs give you a 3 month vacation every summer?

[Gillivray]

That difference isn't far more, and since public school teachers have to meet more legal requirements and benchmark criteria than private school teachers, I think it is reasonable for them to have pay reflecting that.

From time to time one hears the argument that "public sector X employees get paid more than private sector Y employees" but the reason for this is that the public sector employees have generally higher education levels and so receive higher remuneration. There's no way you can compare between public and private in education when a private school teacher doesn't need to have taken a single education class or have received certification.

My college roommate was an education major, and I don't think one can underestimate the value of her being required to take classes on how to decorate bulletin boards. I will take someone who excelled in a subject teaching my children over someone who makes a pretty bulletin board but barely passed the subject they are teaching any day.

[Boleslav]

I would NEVER allow my children to attend the public school system here because of the incredibly sub-par education they would receive.

That's your opinion. Did you research the public schools in your area? If they were really that bad, the state would have closed them down and consolidated the district long ago. Instead you are sending your children to a school where they do not have to adhere to standards.

Keep in mind when evaluating a teacher's salary compared to another profession, teachers in the U.S. work only 9 months out of the year. How many other jobs give you a 3 month vacation every summer?

Also keep in mind that teachers get paid for only nine months work, the salary divided into 12 monthly installments. Further bear in mind that public school teachers are required to complete a certain number of hours of professional development each year, and the only time to do that is in the summer "vacation".

My college roommate was an education major, and I don't think one can underestimate the value of her being required to take classes on how to decorate bulletin boards. I will take someone who excelled in a subject teaching my children over someone who makes a pretty bulletin board but barely passed the subject they are teaching any day.

When you take one example and extrapolate it across everyone it tends to be offensive. An example would be me concluding from your roommate's classes on bulletin board design that it's a shame you couldn't go a better college.