Girl Guides Controversy

[Balaam]

things have changed quite a bit since i was a scout
for one.... now they have them new fangled motor cars
but the solution is very simple really

[BigNorr]

Transgenderism and homosexuality are not the same thing. You are displaying ignorance of the issue. Furthermore, scientific studies done on the matter have concluded that the chemical makeup of a transgendered brain is infact different from standard male/female. In addition, both men ans women contain varying levels of the opposite gender's sex hormone, meaning that gender is not as black and white as the pair of chromosomes in your final pair. And actually, some people don't even have a pair they have a trio such as XXY or XYY - so what does that make them and how do you classify?

I am aware it is not the same thing as homosexuality it is just a recurring theme that has come up here which is why it was mentioned. Since it is a hormonal thing then pump em full of extra testosterone til they are old enough to make their own informed decision lol. As for those that are different they are just a person. No assigned gender to em lol makes it easy unless they have male or female parts then that makes it easier to assign a gender to em regardless of how their brain is. Fact is just because their brain is different doesn't mean they are female.

[TriGunSK]

I have a trans-gendered Friend he is will he think's his a she but i don't really mind .
I always call em he .
Doesn't like it but i do and i have grown up around peeps like this .
They get some bad life's and abuse from people who think there "Freak's&Monster's"
I'm not Gay or trans-gendered i'm a straight 15 year old guy .
But i some how feel for them because well if i can live a fine life as a guy why can't they live as a girl if they wanted ?
I admit it confuse's me
And it's kinda weird some time's but you learn to live with it..

.......
And after all who are we to judge people on what they want to be ?

There just like you and i just with a twist

So what im trying to say is if they want to jion anything they should be able to .
Yes it will confuse people but were just going to have to live with it

[BigNorr]

I think ultimately if the organization isn't funded with public money it should be up to the organization to decide who they let in. If the person isn't wanted do they really want to hang around with that group of people who tried to keep them out anyway? If they fight to get them in then it will be awkward for all involved knowing they are only there because the organization was forced to allow them entry when they were not wanted.

[TriGunSK]

Wouldn't that be a private organization ?
I guess you have point ^ I would not want to stick around somewhere where i have o force myself in .
But hay i still belive we should all be equal

Even if your Straight,trans-gendered,Gay,Black,White...
You get my point ?

[Gillivray]

I think ultimately if the organization isn't funded with public money it should be up to the organization to decide who they let in. If the person isn't wanted do they really want to hang around with that group of people who tried to keep them out anyway? If they fight to get them in then it will be awkward for all involved knowing they are only there because the organization was forced to allow them entry when they were not wanted.

But it is not really the group of people (the girlguides) who are trying to keep them out.....it is the bigoted parents.

[AbstractAngel]

FYI I understand how other people feel about these issues, and I am not meaning to offend or belittle anyone with my opinion.

Chemically and mentally someone can be different than their natural body parts. It's like saying people who are hermaphrodites aren't really people because they aren't allowed to be male or female, since their body does not %100 coincide with what society deems as acceptable... Just saying it's a little ridiculous to me.

By not allowing transgendered children to decide for themselves how they identify, you are essentially saying that homosexual, bisexual, or anyone who is not completely straight and identifies as the gender they look most like is in the same category. You are also teaching our children that it is not okay to be different, or to be yourself, and seclusion is necessary to keep people safe from freaks like them. In the mind of a 7 year old that can be pretty damaging, even if to us that seems a tad dramatic from an adult's perspective.

As for the girl guide issue? I was a girl guide. Oh, and then I was a scout. Yep. I was a tomboy who joined in with the boys and was welcomed. And I didn't even "identify as a man", I just liked the sports and activites that scouts had better than the girl guides. I don't see why on the flips side girl organizations cannot do the same as the boy organizations...

[BigNorr]

But it is not really the group of people (the girlguides) who are trying to keep them out.....it is the bigoted parents.

Well looking at the history of the girl guides and their founders beliefs they arn't exactly the most open minded lol. Or at least thats what I noticed when I was in beavers, then cubs, then scouts lol.

[RTA]

Meh, I have no issue with this. I recognize it may be confusing for kids, and on one hand that makes a lot of sense. On the other hand, life doesn't get any easier, and I think exposing children to this at an early age could help them realize that we are all different, and we should accept everyone for who they are, not their gender or sexual preferences.

On another note - maybe an easier solution is just combine the scouts into 1 group, rather than separating them by gender. I remember the Boy's & Girls club used to be called the Boy's Club, until it was decided that the name was biased.

Lastly - we have enough problems in this world that really deserve our attention. This should not be one of them. I'm not knocking this post, but with the state of our country and the world, I would hope people understand this particular issue simply doesn't deserve a lot of energy. We have much bigger things to focus on...

my 2 cents.

[Lucas101]

There's two buttons in the top row of the textbox. When in quick reply mode, they'll be on the far right hand corner. When in advanced mode, they'll be to the far right of the row but not all the way in the corner. They look like this -]

Thanks Eric ... I owe you rep

I think, if the little boy wants to be a girl guide, let him. Same if a little girl wants to be a boy scout. Sick of gender discrimination and social constructs that benefit no one.

Social constructs are in place for a reason, you eliminate all of them for good or bad and eventually you will have nothing but anarchy.

Far from imparting negative consequences on the other girl guides, it might open their eyes and help them realize from a young age that other orientations besides the straight cut male/female exist and help them grow up with fewer prejudices than their bigot mothers. I think the core of this issue is one of religious conservatism and the Girl Guides organization is right to ignore the unfounded and frankly ignorant concerns of the parents.

Going back to what I said earlier, how can a seven year old realize what s/he actually is? These kind of 'studies' are more often then not proven wrong to be at least partially incorrect eventually. Quite frankly, I believe that gender confusion has more to do with how you are raised rather then something going on in your brain. Why do I think this? Well I grew up on a farm for the first 18 years of my life and then I went to live in Toronto to attend university. I noticed that most females that lived out in the country were more 'manly' then most of the males that I met in Toronto. So unless there is something in the water out here, the way you are raised does dictate the way that you act.

Transgenderism and homosexuality are not the same thing. You are displaying ignorance of the issue. Furthermore, scientific studies done on the matter have concluded that the chemical makeup of a transgendered brain is infact different from standard male/female. In addition, both men ans women contain varying levels of the opposite gender's sex hormone, meaning that gender is not as black and white as the pair of chromosomes in your final pair. And actually, some people don't even have a pair they have a trio such as XXY or XYY - so what does that make them and how do you classify?

I'm just going to say this, and I just quoted this example because its a good one, lets leave homosexuality out of this discussion it will do nothing to prove any points and its small relevance to this discussion is overshadowed by the sheer amount of volume that this topic introduces.

FYI I understand how other people feel about these issues, and I am not meaning to offend or belittle anyone with my opinion.

Chemically and mentally someone can be different than their natural body parts. It's like saying people who are hermaphrodites aren't really people because they aren't allowed to be male or female, since their body does not %100 coincide with what society deems as acceptable... Just saying it's a little ridiculous to me.

By not allowing transgendered children to decide for themselves how they identify, you are essentially saying that homosexual, bisexual, or anyone who is not completely straight and identifies as the gender they look most like is in the same category. You are also teaching our children that it is not okay to be different, or to be yourself, and seclusion is necessary to keep people safe from freaks like them. In the mind of a 7 year old that can be pretty damaging, even if to us that seems a tad dramatic from an adult's perspective.

As for the girl guide issue? I was a girl guide. Oh, and then I was a scout. Yep. I was a tomboy who joined in with the boys and was welcomed. And I didn't even "identify as a man", I just liked the sports and activites that scouts had better than the girl guides. I don't see why on the flips side girl organizations cannot do the same as the boy organizations...

No what we are teaching our children is to be yourself rather then to be someone different. We are also teaching our children that there are consequences to rash decisions if you make them before being mature enough to deal with said consequences. When you were in scouts did you try and convince all the boys that you were in fact a boy rather than a girl?

The scout issue you raise is interesting though, did any of the parents object to you joining?