honesty

[Balaam]

the question: is honesty the best policy?

i ask because i'm not sure any more
i teach my kids that if they lie about kicking jimmy in the goolies, it's worse than kicking jimmy in the first place...but am i right or am i just expecting my children to act better than the rest of the world?

people lie to me all the time
i usually know and yet instead of calling the liars out, i just let it go
is that just as bad, does that make me a liar by omission?

how do you know when a politician is lying? their lips are moving.
same goes with lawyers, right?

i'm 48kms (as the crow flies) from the forth city in australia
when i asked for adsl, i'm told i'm rural... get satellite
when i ask of decent television reception, i'm rural... get satellite
when i applied for the solar energy subsidy because i'm regional and want to get off the grid, i'm metro... pay full price.

is truth and fact only what's convenient?

i really hope that those closest to me know that i'd rather be hurt by the truth than lied to
the problem is, i don't know if they just say things to keep me sweet or if i really am doing good things

so is honesty important any more?

[SickbyDefinition]

I think it's all very situational. Sometimes things are hard to understand or comprehend for others, and it is best for everyone to make it easier by lying.
For instance, when a 6 year old child wants to know how Santa gets around the world in one night.
But, this also has a place in the professional world. Sometimes clients cannot understand the inner workings of the system simply because it's intricate and they are not educated. It may be easier to put things in simpler terms or even fib about it. I think it is okay, when necessary, so long as the lie does not end up hurting the person (or someone else) to which you are lying.

As far as what to tell your kids, he should be punished for kicking that child, but the fact that he lied about it should double the punishment. In that case, he is not necessarily rewarded for honesty, but he knows the consequences will be worse if he lies.
Like, my little brother peed on top of the toilet in the dark one time. He was in a hurry and couldn't see, and didn't realize the toilet seat was down. So then, before anyone found it, he freaked out and told us all that someone had peed on the toilet, who was it??
After a few seconds we caught on, and his fib crumpled around him. He was punished, not for making a mistake and peeing on the toilet, but for lying about it.

As far as telling people the truth about what you think of them.. well, sometimes people don't feel like going through the effort of being that honest. I certainly don't tell some of my more negative opinions because, what's the point? Of course, i'm a good liar.

[Nesterus]

I wouldn't brag about being a good liar.

[Thalric]

i would...

[desk]

People don't seem to like it when you give them an honest answer. People grow cynical and call it being wise cuz of age or knowing better now but in reality it is that we are used to not hearing an honest answer anymore.

As far as facts go, they too can be manipulated into supporting just about anything you want it to. Your solar energy subsidy considers you metro because you are still on the same part of the grid that supplies the main city close by to you. You are either en route to or within that section of the grid.

With that said, you can manipulate the way we define things so that it best fits your point of view or your situation. So for example, everyone nowadays is a "so******t". Except that if you accept the definition that people now use to label a so******t there are inconvenient consequences which must need be fixed. The best way to fix it is to ignore it completely.

tl;dr We're too used to being lied to so we've become cynical enough to hypocritically say that honesty is important...that is, until it becomes too inconvenient.

[Balaam]

For instance, when a 6 year old child wants to know how Santa gets around the world in one night.

when i'm dealing with my kids, i'm no truth nazi, i see no harm in letting them believe in fantasies just as i did when i was a kid. i don't believe it's lying when you tell them to put a tooth under their pillow or that they could grow potatoes behind their ears

But, this also has a place in the professional world. Sometimes clients cannot understand the inner workings of the system simply because it's intricate and they are not educated. It may be easier to put things in simpler terms or even fib about it.

i'm in the service delivery business and i find it very frustrating when i'm lied to
i take great care to be truthful with my customers and wish they would do the same
there's nothing worse than being told you need to deliver by friday when they have no intention of using it for a month following. if they want it by friday, because that's what was agreed, well fair enough

As far as what to tell your kids, he should be punished for kicking that child, but the fact that he lied about it should double the punishment. In that case, he is not necessarily rewarded for honesty, but he knows the consequences will be worse if he lies.

agreed

As far as telling people the truth about what you think of them.. well, sometimes people don't feel like going through the effort of being that honest. I certainly don't tell some of my more negative opinions because, what's the point? Of course, i'm a good liar.

here's the rub, if someone got a shocker of a haircut, one that you think looks terrible, if you tell them you like it, you're a liar. if you tell them it's a shocker, you hurt their feelings. if you tell them “it's really not to my taste, but if you're happy... cool” they know four things. 1) you're not a liar 2) you don't particularly like the haircut. 3) everyone has their own style and 4) you're polite
you don't have to be rude to be honest, and you don't have to be a liar to save someone's feelings

People don't seem to like it when you give them an honest answer. People grow cynical and call it being wise cuz of age or knowing better now but in reality it is that we are used to not hearing an honest answer anymore.

some people don't seem to like honest answers but honesty can clear things right up. when i was in my 20s and working my way up the ranks as an engineer i was always focused on the next promotion my boss keep telling me (for about 18months) that i'd get the team lead when there was an available spot. a new team was formed and the lead went to someone else. i was furious scheduled a meeting to discuss my career path with the general manager. within 10 minutes the GM told me if i wanted to be a team lead i needed to have a more diverse product knowledge and proceeded to tell me exactly what i was lacking. my supervisor was just trying to keep me sweet, i suppose he didn't want to make me feel i didn't know enough. it was a bitter pill but it was the truth. a year later i was a team lead and i thanked the GM for setting me straight the day i was promoted

As far as facts go, they too can be manipulated into supporting just about anything you want it to. Your solar energy subsidy considers you metro because you are still on the same part of the grid that supplies the main city close by to you. You are either en route to or within that section of the grid.

i won't beat you up for not knowing the particulars but...nope
here in australia 95% of the population lives in the metropolitan areas the government constantly introduces initiatives that quote 91% of the population, thus leaving the 4% that live just a little further from the city in the same boat as the guys that live in the outback.
in this particular instance the grid i'm connected to is connected to the plant that is west of me and i am west of brisbane

We're too used to being lied to so we've become cynical enough to hypocritically say that honesty is important...that is, until it becomes too inconvenient.

it's funny because i've always found it easier to tell the truth than to try to keep up with the story that's being told to keep the customer sweet. i deal with it at work and i'm simply not comfortable with the trend
the reason i started the thread was to see if i was alone

[BOMMM]

honest 100% of the way

its so much easier and theres no tip toeing around people then cause you dont know what theyre thinking/feeling.
personally id much rather if someone told me all the stuff thats hard to hear then be lied to,
shows a certain amount of character and respect to tell someone something straight instead of having to lie about it and filling them up with balony

if some one lies to me and i can spot it, i just accept it and deal with it theres no point calling it out i find, it just gets tedious and id end up coming across as rude,
if i know someones being honest with me, i put a lot more effort into helping them and finding out what they need.


you can really tell if someones honest by nature, and others really like that, for every numpty that tries to take advantage of an honest person, theres 10 more who would happily stick there neck out for them, or at least thats what ive found so with everyday life

that said, if your child becomes a door to door sales rep like the ones we have over here,make sure they know how to LIE LIE LIE lol

sources: me lol, i cant lie in person, i cant keep a straight face ,i break out smiling or laughing regardless of what the lie is about or who im telling it to,so ive giving up on lies a long long time ago xD

[Gamble]

never let the truth get in the way of a good story

[desk]

some people don't seem to like honest answers but honesty can clear things right up. when i was in my 20s and working my way up the ranks as an engineer i was always focused on the next promotion my boss keep telling me (for about 18months) that i'd get the team lead when there was an available spot. a new team was formed and the lead went to someone else. i was furious scheduled a meeting to discuss my career path with the general manager. within 10 minutes the GM told me if i wanted to be a team lead i needed to have a more diverse product knowledge and proceeded to tell me exactly what i was lacking. my supervisor was just trying to keep me sweet, i suppose he didn't want to make me feel i didn't know enough. it was a bitter pill but it was the truth. a year later i was a team lead and i thanked the GM for setting me straight the day i was promoted

gotta love them "keeping you fresh", but at least it sort of worked out for you in the end

i won't beat you up for not knowing the particulars but...nope
here in australia 95% of the population lives in the metropolitan areas the government constantly introduces initiatives that quote 91% of the population, thus leaving the 4% that live just a little further from the city in the same boat as the guys that live in the outback.
in this particular instance the grid i'm connected to is connected to the plant that is west of me and i am west of brisbane

wait, im confused... so ur not considered metro? I know govt tends to play with how they define things so it doesnt surprise me. I've ran into similar situations where its technically defined as one way but its still a bit absurd, like a forced bidding processes for services/goods only supplied by 1 company... sigh

it's funny because i've always found it easier to tell the truth than to try to keep up with the story that's being told to keep the customer sweet. i deal with it at work and i'm simply not comfortable with the trend
the reason i started the thread was to see if i was alone

well, if you work on the management side of things then i'm guessing it is more prevalent or at least more easily spotted. but i agree on it being easier to just give an honest answer. i dont bother spinning some story mainly because i dont care that they will get their jimmies all rustled... my boss is the same way so im lucky i guess lol

[xVoidx]

"There are various eyes. Even the Sphinx has eyes: and as a result there are various truths, and as a result there is no truth." -Friedrich Nietzsche