honesty

[DWorth]

When I lie MY brain decides it wants to laugh I've perfected my pokerface over the years though I only get caught on playing practical jokes on my sister cuz everyone knows I'm the only one with the courage to do it lmao (she scares people )

[Fresh420]

lol nice i played a ton of jokes on my sister..but she would get mad when i did and break all my toys * when i was 7* she sooooooooo mean but i wouldn't trade her for anything in the world

[DWorth]

LOL me and my sister has been biting each other heads of since we were 12... I love my sister and I wouldn't trade her for anyone too though we both adopted one of our close family friends as a sister she basically lives here too

[Rodri]

You people make me crazy sometimes and now I'm angry enough to make one final post, breaking my earlier promise.

Of course there is truth.
I don't care who you are or what your opinion is, truth will remain true, even if you don't like it from where you are sitting.
There is no such thing as individual truth, that is a total construct from a decadent society (ours). (There are individual opinions, which may be strongly held but they are not all truth.)
If you cannot recognise the truth from lies as an adult, then you will be very easy to manipulate for your entire life.
I don't ever expect anyone to take me on my word in the online world (or real world for that matter), I expect people to do their own research and reach their own conclusions.

No-one tells the truth 100% of the time because it is difficult to do, can hurt other people and can get you into a lot of trouble sometimes. (Sorry Mr. Great and Glorious Leader but I don't believe that you are a God incarnate . Me? Stand in front of that wall? Why?)

You can opt to be honest, or fib a little, or obfuscate (delay answering), or answer with a question, or say nothing (it's sometimes better to say nothing and be thought a fool, rather than open your mouth and confirm it.), lie blatantly with full awareness that you are telling lies, or lie to others and lie to yourself at the same time (which is just a little bit sad really).

In my online life I have posted dozens, perhaps hundreds of images that I sometimes pretend are me and that I sometimes don't. Only one image is really me and only one of the many names I use is really me as well. I know I am not being 100% honest when I do it but for privacy and security reasons (and fun and fantasy) I do it purposefully and have no problem doing so. That is not contradictory with being an honest person. It is just a part of life where full disclosure is not expected or called for. In other words, it isn't important. Try and get the important stuff right, try and be honest when it really matters. It doesn't matter if a child continues to believe in Santa Claus but it does matter if an adult bases their life-decision-making upon a fabric of lies and an ignorance of truth.

Most importantly, try and be true to yourself, both the good and the bad. This is perhaps the hardest thing of all to do. Some of us see our good parts but don't see our flaws and others of us tend to focus on our flaws and ignore our good parts. The truth (here's one of those fundamental truths for you) is that everyone is a mix of positive and negative traits in different proportions and everyone has done positive and negative things at some time in their lives. People are complex creatures (another fundamental truth?). At least if you can understand your own motivations and know the truth behind your own actions and words, it's not too big a step to consider how your actions and words (or lack of) may affect others and before you know it, you will be on the path to adulthood and empathy.

[Moved because my original post got buried quickly.]

[Khalee]

Of course there is truth. Truth is the basis of everything we are.

However, 10 people seeing the same event will not result in a single unified translated truth. "Translated" is the key here. Truth is what happens. What we understand to have happened will rely on what we believe, what we understand, and what has occurred in our lives in the past.

[Rodri]

This is why I've always claimed that there is no such thing as "The" truth. There is your truth, and my truth, and that person over there's truth. But even telling "your" truth is still honesty to the best of your knowledge.

Of course there is truth. Truth is the basis of everything we are.

However, 10 people seeing the same event will not result in a single unified translated truth. "Translated" is the key here. Truth is what happens. What we understand to have happened will rely on what we believe, what we understand, and what has occurred in our lives in the past.

Did you have a change of heart or did you just accidentally contradict yourself? Either would be understandable, this is a deep subject and even my opinions have shifted over time and I tend to accidentally contradict myself quite often, even if it is unintentional.

"There are various eyes. Even the Sphinx has eyes: and as a result there are various truths, and as a result there is no truth." -Friedrich Nietzsche

Nietzsche was a dangerous psychopath who's only contribution was to inspire other dangerous psychopaths.

[Khalee]

Did you have a change of heart or did you just accidentally contradict yourself? Either would be understandable, this is a deep subject and even my opinions have shifted over time and I tend to accidentally contradict myself quite often, even if it is unintentional.

Accidental contradiction due to mis-wording

When I said there is no such thing as "The" truth, I do believe that, but in the way of "the truth" when told or believed by a person.

Truth, in my opinion, is contaminated as soon as it's translated by a person, even within their own mind. Truth is what happens. What we understand/believe to have happened will be coloured by beliefs, history, viewpoint etc.

Perhaps my original sentence should have been: There is no such thing as telling "The" truth

Especially not, as claimed in court, "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth". Who on earth could honestly claim to know the whole truth?

[Rodri]

Accidental contradiction due to mis-wording

When I said there is no such thing as "The" truth, I do believe that, but in the way of "the truth" when told or believed by a person.

Yes, I understand what you mean, people may honestly think they are telling "the truth" but it's well known that eyewitness accounts are very unreliable and identification by eyewitnesses is fraught with danger of wrongful identification.

Truth, in my opinion, is contaminated as soon as it's translated by a person, even within their own mind. Truth is what happens. What we understand/believe to have happened will be coloured by beliefs, history, viewpoint etc.

Nope, sorry I disagree. Truth can be expressed but it takes a great mind to do so. Einstein's equation E = MC2 is truth and it is what is known as a "beautiful equation" by mathematicians. That is why the ancient philosophers Plato and Aristotle have been admired for centuries for their truths. Some basic truths have always been known but you are right that over time, those truths have been corrupted and turned into something else, usually a religion, or sometimes a cause. But that's not quite right because the truth is simple and most people's minds are too noisy to hear it. But the truth is difficult to express in the written word when we think about it too much. That, and we have been taught to admire 'sophistication' and one definition of sophistication is overly complex*. Now, if I accept the truth in Buddhist Philosophy and especially the teachings of the zen buddhist masters, as I have stated elsewhere in this section and I do! What I am saying now is reflected in the way they lived and the way they are said to have treated those who came seeking teaching and the riddle questions they gave them to meditate upon, such as "what is the sound of one hand clapping?" and that is simple too. The question has no answer but when the student asked how to meditate he is told to calm his mind and come back with the answer. Often, students would meditate for days or weeks and come back to the master with an answer they thought was right, but the Master would tell them they were wrong and to go meditate some more. Eventually the student would come back and out of pure frustration, ask the master for the answer. At this, the master would stop what he was doing and give a simple but (seemingly) abstract answer, such as "White cranes lined in gold fly across a clear blue sky." What's that supposed to mean, right? It's just being in the moment and he was saying what was in his mind, right then. Because the cranes really were flying across the blue sky and the master was admiring natural beauty in the natural world at that moment.

Perhaps my original sentence should have been: There is no such thing as telling "The" truth

Sorry, I have to change my original opinion. If you read the edit above and know about the zen philosophy and the things I touched on, I now have to strongly disagree but that's ok. We were both over-thinking it.

Especially not, as claimed in court, "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth". Who on earth could honestly claim to know the whole truth?

Only someone who has a Messiah delusion or someone who is going through a mental crisis. I hope I never have to claim to know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth because in all honesty, I don't think I could. There are always exceptions to the rule of course, but that's a different subject.

As I stated on another site in another conversation, I don't have all the answers but after a lifetime of asking questions, I do have some insights on certain subjects.

[*An interesting side-note here, another word with the same root word as sophistication is sophistry. Sophistry has a definition of: The use of fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving, or a fallacious argument. It's quite an insult to accuse someone of sophistry in intellectual circles.]

The main real reason for all the edits is, I made a lot of mistakes but I also wanted to get back to the subject and that's honesty. Telling the truth is a good thing to try and do as long as you don't hurt anyone when you do so and that requires a good heart or good intent, if you prefer. So if your girlfriend asks if she looks fat in something and you don't want to hurt her feelings (but don't think that she is too heavy or far off her normal weight), just say something like, you like her just as she is. It's what she needs to hear that counts and that should do the trick. (It's a tricky one because all that slimming and dieting is nonsense that has been fed into women's heads since slim became fashionable. It's all about eating good and healthy foods and moderating the stuff you know is not so good but you really enjoy eating, so you don't feel deprived and don't over-indulge. The truth is, normal, healthy women come in different body types and shapes and sizes (like all people) but true beauty is on the inside, not the outside.) If your child asks about Santa, play along. Children love fantasy and as long as there comes a time to tell them he is just that, (a fantasy) and you do the right thing then, it's just another child's game and nobody is getting hurt at all.

It's hard to be 100% honest all the time because we start thinking about what we should say that is honest and won't hurt anyone, or upset anyone and sometimes, some people just expect you to lie to them and nothing else will get you out of there faster than doing just that. If they are that deluded, do it and walk away, it's not your problem.

[I see what you did there Balaam, you made me break my (angry) word with a tempting thread title but it's ok ]

[EDIT]Sometimes it's best just to stay silent and let others find out for themself.[/EDIT]

[LeoDaVinci]

Honestly is incredibly overrated and misunderstood. In reality it's a great mask to wear when you need something, whatever that may be. Use "honesty" to gain favoritism or approval. This doesn't apply to family, although some family members will betray you. Honesty is not instinctive. It is a man-made characteristic that helps us evolve as a society and/or gain for our own benefit.

[King Alboin]

Phew, lots of words to chew through.

First, Khalee, er ... umm ... I know the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and am no messiah, just an ordinary self educated erudite.

I think what you mean to express is not so much the translation of what is seen, heard, felt, yet what the interpretation of those senses, are. feel free to correct me.

A translation is truth told in another language. Interpretation is meditation on that truth, explained.
What we have here is a discourse on honesty. Define honesty, define truth, define lies, define dishonesty, define the middle ground. All in all being dishonest, changes the course of one's life path, as does being honest may correct the path of one's faultering life course.

Put a qualifier on the truth, such as, "being brutally honest" .. I ask why does the truth have to be brutal? Are your friends such one celled amoebas that they must be manipulated into believing the falsehoods that is told them? Are they that weak souled
and thinned skinned, they caint handle an honest opinion? What tenderness are you showing them by lieing to them? albeit, What strength are you giving them by being honest with them.

Should they hear from you, no no no, that dress dont make you look fat, or should they hear,
oh, baby, wow wow wow, that dress brings out the best of what I love about you!!!

that^ is not a lie but an honest response to a humble request.

What truth is one viewing when one must think to lie to a friend?
The truth that her butt is too big, and that pimple shows the stage level of puberty, and her cankles are discusting?
Explain to me, how one loves someone and sees faults like that? Hell I dont, should I love someone, I am blind to faults, litterally I can not see discrepancies. Screw what others think. I aint them, I am me. nuff said.
Being blind, therefore allows me to be as honest as I can, not having to rely, as you said previously, on past statements to keep all the lies in order. What a wicked web we weave, when at first we go about to decieve. [who said that?] [Charolotte? idk]

To Rodri:

Uh hem, .....

Silence.

^that is the answer to Master Po's query. Studying the Buddha you should know that the simplest of answers is always the correct resolve. as you said, sometimes silence is the best truthful answer to give. I agree. Sick said it earlier, and I agreed then too.

One hand clapping is for stealth of thought, to quiet one's mind, to squelch all violence within and just ..... be

The answer he gave about the golden winged crane was to re-express this truth. a golden wing crane can not fly for the weight on it's shoulders keeps it grounded. Therefore the crane is silent.

Master Po also said this:

"In a heart that is one with nature, though the body contends, there is no violence, and in the heart that is not one with nature, though the body be at rest, there is always violence. Be, therefore, like the prow of a boat. It cleaves water, yet it leaves in its wake water unbroken."

Honestly [Honesty] is incredibly overrated and misunderstood. In reality it's a great mask to wear when you need something, whatever that may be. Use "honesty" to gain favoritism or approval. This doesn't apply to family, although some family members will betray you. Honesty is not instinctive. It is a man-made characteristic that helps us evolve as a society and/or gain for our own benefit.

Orly? so to be perfectly frank, that pimple on the side of your nose, looks swell, that rusty zipper you are sporting, wont show, that cowlick you are striving to paste down, is just fine. So? tell me what favoritism am I seeking, by telling you lies? Okay, your statements about honesty being overrated are full of holes, ... if you think honesty can be misunderstood, you have a lot to learn about the real world, the mask you wear will tend to get itchy if you wear it to manipulate others, honesty comes from the core of a person and therefore shows his/her character as being an upstanding, courageous individual, lieing is the act of a coward and tends to expose your sub-human nature, should you do so. K ... what motivation do you think I garner in telling you the truth? should you tell the truth for dishonest reasons, that is a lie, in my book. In fact, there is no truth in your truth, if being disingenuous with your motive be.

I will leave off with this well known indisputable fact; You can lie to your lover, you can lie to the cops, but never ever lie to your brain surgeon or your lawyer.