The prodigal son returns, HOW TO KILL 700 + Million Archers :)

[ssfgrgawer]

I believe the word was, we are happy top have killed the city. There was no mention of pride anywhere on my post However this thread is in response to this one http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?...to-Evony/page3 So I can assume then that we both did terribly based on your standards? They took a week as well to clear the 400 million archers. Food is of no consequence when as mentioned before smaller players are the ones hitting. Servers are dead a week or a month to take down a target is relative. If you played age2 you would quickly learn that attacks is a matter of preference. If a city is on compact and has an intel HH defending. 125k archers will kill perhaps 20k archers, where as 125k listas may kill maybe 45k archers. The difference is that one lista is worth 8 archers, materials wise. Time wise I do not remember exactly how much longer it takes to build a lista over an archer. You want to waste listas then good for you We used archers and they were as effective and we still have our listas to take down the next target

The two to one trade is unavoidable when fighting an Intel HH with a large city on compact, mechs will not change that cost. Mechs or not you will still pay the piper. Only when you get on small numbers can you use different waves to get around the 2 to one ratio. Sorry that we disappointed your age one expectations. You should try Age2 for a little while, then perhaps our kill will not appear as appalling to you.

I have never played Age1 but I do know that there is allot of differences ion mechanics, food etc. Do you think it would be fair for me to judge Age1 reports based on my knowledge of Age2?

The mechanics of ages 1 and two are quite similar, The major difference being age two Heros work differently and are limited to level 100/150 while age 1 is unrestricted and troops are not instant in age 2. The other major difference i know of is the damage overflow - one unit can kill two layers or more in one round if its attack stack is high enough. Im sure that's not entirely accurate as Ive not actually played age 2 since the beta's (Instant warriors at 80 attack was the best) but i know in a trade fire you should get a hell of a lot more then 45k arch per mech. If you know how age 2 works then age 1 reports must look really impressive to you, We get 100k+ arch for a 99k arch hammer on a regular basis.

In a few minutes mucking about with the age 2 Dxcalc i was getting a minimum of 90k arch per 120k lista wave, Layered to age one standards. heal rate does factor into it, and im not sure how honour works in age 2, but defender with a zillion archers should be loaded up the wazoo with honour anyway.

Im assuming you guys can get 500 attack/50 int heroes in age two? cause that's all i was using as attackers. (considered spam/all rounder heroes for age 1, but again i don't know what the average attack hero is in age 2, I guess if you are hitting with 100 attack inn heroes then yes you might run into some damage problems.) I do remember reading somewhere the best heroes in age two were 800+ in attack, so im guessing 300-500 is mid level? like the kind of hero you end up with 70 of them laying around just from regular farming or whatever?

When your killing citys with major troops you need to be pulling as much damage per wave as possible, Evony is not based on a kill/death system of ranking so res cost be damned, your not aiming for the best bang for your buck, your aiming to tear down all them arrows as quickly as possible. 90k arch for 120k lista sucks, but its a damn site better then 45k per. Hell even a 300 attack hero would pull 67k arch down a hit. and thats if you aren't using pults as anything other than a layer. more pults = more damage. a standard age 1 70/50 layered mech would be pulling close to 103k arch per hit with a 500 atk hero, and 76k arch with a 300 attack hero. that's only 9210 waves to get rid of them 700m arrows. not counting heal it would be quite a lot of lista and pults required for 9200 waves, but that is before heal factor, and your homies. If yall build that many arrows, surely you can overbuild mechs for a few months when planning to nuke a monstrosity like the city killed here. 10 players with 10m mechs each is 100m mechs. You guys don't refuge in age two so why you don't carry 100m pults ill never know.
I get that pults are expensive and slow to build in age two, cause of lack of actual farms that stick around and that your heros are poo, but if you guys have time to build over a billion archers, you could have built 10m pults or like 30m lista if you want to go that route.

However - Age two was never meant to have age one troop counts. its not built to handle it, hence the hero nerfs and such. age one players build hundreds of millions of archers to survive having 20m mechs thrown at them in an afternoon. Age two doesn't require 400, 700m+ archers. Its just unnecessary. but then again i think building 50m archers in age 1 is overbuilding because you are scared of being hit, so im not one whos opinion matters when commenting on overbuilding. they really should have limited the number of troops you guys can have per city as well to counter balance the nerfed heroes.

[Eminim]

Dxcalc, I use it but when you are talking 400 million archers plus, forget about it. This is the reality https://gyazo.com/35c3a961924d3c0702397217cdb3bae7 that is not even one to 1 and we are talking catapults. Do you know how expensive to build they are? Few accounts on the server have much more than 2 to 3 million of them. Now here 170k listas to kill 130k archers that is the real numbers https://gyazo.com/d863869365b27ba23953ade2732996c5. Average city can only send 100k troops at a time, with Christmas castle you raise it to 125k No way no how that with a 125k wave, I do not care how you layer it you will not kill over 65k archers on a 500 million archer city, with an HH on intel defending. Considering listas and pults are much more expensive in material and building time, I stick to my archers I already mentioned that our server is dead, you can pick at a target once a week and it is not going anywhere, so there is no rush to finish the targets in one day. Honor is important, for the heal rate. Few accounts loaded with honor on our server, people do their earnest to drop it as soon as they get it. Logic from Age1 will not do anyone favors on Age2, I am basing this on our conversation, because as I said, I never played Age1.

[MechHead]

Seeing this as the "battle of the year" (LOL) makes me not regret quitting at all, back when i played killing an enemy actually took a little bit of skill, now days these 500m arch cities show just how patheticly terrified of defense everyone has become. If people didnt play like pussies we wouldnt be in this situation in the first place

[Eminim]

If people didnt play like pussies we wouldnt be in this situation in the first place

Actually that name is more appropriate for those that quit playing But playing style has nothing to do with it, the only reason that we have prolific large war cities is because of hero capping. I personally will not tackle a 500 million archers city that is hero capping, waste 90 heroes to kill maybe 10 million archers? No thank you, I have better things to do with my time. That sir is the only reason cities grow so large, has nothing to do with balls or paranoia. Has to do with a problem that Evony refuses to fix. The fact that both cities where banned and alliances had no issues wiping them, proves my theory. Give me a city that does not hero cap and I will be there killing it. But I will not waste my time with large cities that cap 2 out of 10 heroes sent per wave.

[MechHead]

Lmao if you werent scared to lose your heroes (*****) you would have killed the city before it got that big if your theory were true, but its not, cities got that large because people learned that you couldnt kill them quickly and that you could be offline and not lose your **** because you had 700million archers defending it. The fact that no one plays real defense is the problem.

[ssfgrgawer]

Dxcalc, I use it but when you are talking 400 million archers plus, forget about it. This is the reality https://gyazo.com/35c3a961924d3c0702397217cdb3bae7 that is not even one to 1 and we are talking catapults. Do you know how expensive to build they are? Few accounts on the server have much more than 2 to 3 million of them. Now here 170k listas to kill 130k archers that is the real numbers https://gyazo.com/d863869365b27ba23953ade2732996c5. Average city can only send 100k troops at a time, with Christmas castle you raise it to 125k No way no how that with a 125k wave, I do not care how you layer it you will not kill over 65k archers on a 500 million archer city, with an HH on intel defending. Considering listas and pults are much more expensive in material and building time, I stick to my archers I already mentioned that our server is dead, you can pick at a target once a week and it is not going anywhere, so there is no rush to finish the targets in one day. Honor is important, for the heal rate. Few accounts loaded with honor on our server, people do their earnest to drop it as soon as they get it. Logic from Age1 will not do anyone favors on Age2, I am basing this on our conversation, because as I said, I never played Age1.

i do understand that catapults are expensive. However if you didn't build 400m-700m archers you might be able to bulk those pults to 7-10m. Archers may not cost much individually, but combined their cost is enormous. Pults cost a lot individually but you aren't exactly building 400 million of them either. Its a matter of priorities, do you want a defense that will stand up for months or the ability to nuke a defense that will stand up for months in a matter of hours. Ive always chosen the sword over the shield any day of the week.

Wow age 2 heroes are useless man. 130k arch isn't worth getting out of bed for. i can do that on age 1 with arch hammers and 400 attack heroes. (if your bothered you can look through my post history to find them, but they probably weren't against Intel heroes however.) Ill add that to the reasons why ill never play age two.


@the hero capping issue - This has been apart of evony for as long as evony has been. if you have 20 waves of spam landing in 10 seconds before your main hit chances are you wont lose your good heroes. Even bots set to capture and fire heroes can only do so many per second. You give them 20 spam waves to capture they might snag 3-6 on an unlucky set. Maybe one of your heroes if your really unlucky.

its a numbers game. Throwing 10-30 spam waves with 0 loyalty inn heroes will ensure you lose less good heroes.

The reason hero capping is in the game is to balance it. Without hero capping you could throw a 3k attack hero again and again with no risk, dealing enormous damage. (Or whatever the strongest possible age 2 HH is) Granted this doesnt take into account those accounts with absurd archer counts, But thats not what evony is worried about. What if someone uses that Top tier hero to hit a guy with 20k prestige? He has no risk of losing it so why not? when his ramslams are walking over players 1/1000th the players size is where the issue lies. Evony has no restrictions on who you can hit and with good reason. it would be a boring game for the number 1 player if such restrictions existed, but they have to take into account that not everyone hits in their own weight class.

That is why hero capping is a thing, and why it likely will never change. However something does need to be done about the ability to stockpile mega amounts of archers. They should have just limited troops for age two since the damage output is so low.

[Eminim]

That may be the case on age 1. On age 2 you could not use the same hh over and over again "Without being expensive" First when you attack, reds will poison you three times. That lowers the hero energy to 40 percent, so no matter if you transfer a 100 percent energy hero, it will be 40 as soon as it hits the city that is poisoned. In addition to the energy issue, now the attack power of the heroes is diminished. Even if you where not poisoned and no hero capping, you would not be able to wipe 100 million archers with 40 heroes on one account. So with hero capping and Poison you are insuring that nobody attacks on age 2, again there is a reason why cities are large and fear of losing troops two to one is not one of them. Take hero capping out the equation and I guarantee cities will stop growing Ps, love your idea of spamming, but on my server people get banned for spamming ironic isn't it. A case could be made that too much spam gets you in trouble but a little while attacking does not. I will not risk my account to find out where the line lies. Spamming with scouts still does not beat a bot dismissing heroes. My alliance has mounted raids with 7 or 8 people attacking including two spammers and does little to curve the hero capping. So as a defense for attacks, heroes have energy when they run out you either stop using the hero or you swap it, then as if that was not bad enough; once poisoned you only have heroes with 40 percent energy. On top of that you want to cap heroes? I thought this was a war game? How can you attack when you have no heroes to attack with?

[jma325]

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[WeOwnCA1]

Well as it turns out Eminim decided to take the chicken way out. 3 of us wiped 800m archers plus layers in under 40 min. I guess he realized that his "Archer Defense" was not the way to go and as we proved Catapults were so he NPC all of his stuff rather than face us. Haaaa Haaaa see ya em1 we always knew you were too chicken to fight....


Love,
Jeff

[BringEv0nyback]

my name says enough