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Thread: Rebalance Defense

  1. Text Rebalance Defense

    Perhaps it's only my observation, but by attempting to nerf NPC farming, I believe defenders in general was given a ridiculously huge and unfair advantage. Take this for example:

    The attacker has the same archery level as the defender, every other tech is at least 2 levels higher.

    Defender only have 8k towers and 16k archers.

    Attacker has 40k ballistas, 35k archers, 10k cataphracts, and layers.

    Defender has level 8 walls, and wins. Attacker, despite having better tech and a larger army, gets his army wiped out and loses 2 million honor.

    Even if you are a religious simcity-style turtler, can you honestly say that battles like the one above are fair? And this is only an example. I know too many players who stopped playing after similar experiences.

    Defense recently gained an disproportional advantage in addition to their previous advantages. Here's a small list:

    - Traps and fortifications
    - No limits on defending units
    - Every wall upgrades significantly increases the range of defenders
    - Reinforcements (810,000 archers at level 9 embassy isn't too hard)
    - Defensive trebuchet accurately homes in on siege weapons
    - Archer's tower shoots better homing missiles with every wall upgrade
    - Attacker's horseback riding tech forces attackers to suicide faster

    I'm sure there are others I've missed. Does anyone else think this is a problem, or does most above average players not bother posting on these forums? I've bothered to post since I'm not seeing many threads that points out the faults of the patches (or they get quickly closed for some reason) and because it's such a waste of skill to lose good players to these changes, not to mention that those were paying customers.
    Leader of Love & War

  2. #2

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    well i agree the defender should not have that large an advantage but seriously a force of 40k ballista and hardly any infantry is bull. and their shouldn't be a limit on defending troops. you aren't sending them out of the city so obviously if you have a soldier in the city and your attacked he should fight. but for the most part i agree with the rest of it

  3. #3

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    Hi Providence,

    I used to hate the boost they gave to defense, but I've come to accept it.

    Besides, there is a certain peace of mind that comes with knowing that if you have fully-jacked level 10 walls, that 99% of the people on your server will just get creamed if they try to attack you.

    Of course, one day everyone will have fully-jacked level 10 walls, and we'll all just be skirmishing for valleys at that point.

    EVNoob

  4. Default

    Ah, forgot to also mention this: scouts sometimes decide to attack walls and suicide, giving loads of free honor to the enemy. Not sure why scouts suicide when they run into a defenseless city anyway; can't they just return? I think that counts as a defensive advantage as well, yes?
    Leader of Love & War

  5. #5

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    I suspect that a problem is that defending troops (not just defending wall units) get wall range bonus.

    This is a real battle result. Defender won with equal or lesser tech and weaker attack hero with wall level 8 with engineering at 6 or 7.

    Attacker:
    1 pikeman
    4997 swordsman
    85000 archer
    1 cavalry
    1 cataphract

    Defender:
    17 worker (all died)
    12 warrior (all died)
    113 scout
    1325 pikeman (all died)
    578 swordsman (all died)
    64748 archer (0 CASUALTY!!!)
    1 cavalry (all died)
    1 cataphract (all died)
    200 ballista (all survived)
    21 trap (10 died)
    461 abatis (2 died)
    884 archer tower (all survived)

    Considering archers are supposed to aim at other archers and archer towers first, it seems the most likely explanation is that defending archers are being given wall bonus for range - just like archer towers.

    I can understand defending archer towers getting range bonus for high walls. However, defending archers outside the gates should not be getting wall range bonus.

  6. #6

    Default They are two different things!

    NPC farming and Wall Defense are two completely different things!

    Nerfing the NPC farming is he best thing ever patched for this game. It slows down the gameplay from no-brain clicking into strategic hard work.

    However, increasing the wall defensive range is a completely different story! Yes, the defensive gets a higher advantage now so that's something that needs to be looked at.

    Stop blaming everything on NPC farming...

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkZ View Post
    NPC farming and Wall Defense are two completely different things!

    Nerfing the NPC farming is he best thing ever patched for this game. It slows down the gameplay from no-brain clicking into strategic hard work.

    However, increasing the wall defensive range is a completely different story! Yes, the defensive gets a higher advantage now so that's something that needs to be looked at.

    Stop blaming everything on NPC farming...
    http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=21899

    I address both issues. See thread above. I think NPC farming warrants one more tweak.

    Regarding wall defenses and wall bonus on troop range bonus, I think I know what I'm talking about given that I have destroyed 10-13k archer towers from 3 cities with wall level 9 and 1 city with wall level 8 in the past week.
    Last edited by Celegans; 06-14-2009 at 11:47 PM.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkZ View Post
    NPC farming and Wall Defense are two completely different things!

    Nerfing the NPC farming is he best thing ever patched for this game. It slows down the gameplay from no-brain clicking into strategic hard work.

    However, increasing the wall defensive range is a completely different story! Yes, the defensive gets a higher advantage now so that's something that needs to be looked at.

    Stop blaming everything on NPC farming...
    Lowering the amount of time it takes NPC resources to respawn from 24 hours to 8 hours, but making NPC farming harder by granting defenders a range boost based on wall level was the Dev's vision of solving the NPC farming issue.

    They are not two completely different things. People complained that time spent equaled reward, now even poorly designed turtles have super ninja powers. Cause and effect.

  9. #9

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    well, i may be the only above average player who disagrees i conquered about 8 cities yesterday
    however i am the host of my own alliance where we were at war recently players with about 100k+ MY prestige only had 10k troops

    so yeah i guess i am on both sides of the matter
    p.s. the new "patch" is kinda more realistic once u stop to think about it

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Celegans View Post
    http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=21899

    I address both issues. See thread above. I think NPC farming warrants one more tweak.

    Regarding wall defenses and wall bonus on troop range bonus, I think I know what I'm talking about given that I have destroyed 10-13k archer towers from 3 cities with wall level 9 and 1 city with wall level 8 in the past week.
    I was referring to the OP but you do have valid points.

    1. Yes, NPC farming need at least 1 more nerf. It's too easy to farm still IF you put in the time and effort. The high levels which are still complaining are the real lazy ones. May I suggest the flat turn into a random level NPC that is NOT according to the level of the flat? Problem solved ^^

    2. The wall range bonus applies for all units, no just wall fortification. I thought that was officially stated?

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