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Thread: NPC farming isn't a problem, it is a symptom.

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  1. #1

    Default NPC farming isn't a problem, it is a symptom.

    The real problems comes with the fact that Evony has no real end game, and the end game is pretty easy to reach in a month or two even without NPC farming.

    Troops are just another form of resource, just like food and gold and wood and such. No one wants to spend their resources on something less valuable then what they already have. No one would spend a million wood on ten thousand wood would they? Why would they spend troops that take hours to build and millions of resources on hundreds of thousands of resources?

    If they do use those troops to gain resources, they only do it for a decent profit, as troops require both resources AND time to build. And what do people spend those resources on after their cities and techs are maxed out?

    More troops. That is the only thing they can spend their resources on.

    This is called inflation. A 100k army is devalued because the only thing there is worth getting your troops killed for is enough resources to build a larger, say 150k army.

    Then a 150k army is devalued because the only thing worth spending it on is a 225k army.

    Then the 225k army is devalued because the only thing worth spending it on is a 338k army.

    And so on and so on until people have millions of troops.

    That right there is the only end game Evony has. Thats it. After you are done building your cities, that is the only reason you have to log on. That or griefing, and that only appeals to a few. Most people do not like taking something someone else has built unless it makes them stronger.

    Like the title says, NPC farming isn't a problem, it is a symptom. Huge armies do not come from mountains of resources being available at a comparatively small loss via NPC farming. It comes from the fact that there is nothing else to do in Evony end game other then build massive armies.

    Which means gimping NPC farming will not change anything. People will either find another way to keep building larger and larger armies, or they will quit because they will have nothing in the world left to spend their resources on.

    Other then of course griefing newbies.

    Because troops are just a different kind of resource, and because the only thing you can spend them on is sufficient resources to build bigger armies, the 'troop market' has become highly inflated, do to the fact that there is nothing to 'spend' troops on.

    That has to change if you do not want people to have massive armies. There has to be a 'troop sink' the way other games have gold sinks. Something valuable you spend troops on because you want or need it more then you want or need the troops.

    And that means creating an end game. That is the only way to end the massive army problem. Until there is an end game to spend troops on, people will always find a way to spend their troops on building more troops.

    There is literally nothing else for them to do but figure out a way to do just that.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnseeker View Post
    When Evony was conceived, it was intended that large armies would not be able to be sustained.
    So we ask the obvious: What was the concept? What was the intention?

    Because what was coded into the game was the ability to build and sustain large armies. The code for NPC's was written, the values set, and the game released to the public... twice!

    Either they are total buffoons when it comes to coding games, or they're full of c.r.a.p.. I say equal parts of each, 50/50..

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByronXAN View Post


    So we ask the obvious: What was the concept? What was the intention?

    Because what was coded into the game was the ability to build and sustain large armies. The code for NPC's was written, the values set, and the game released to the public... twice!

    Either they are total buffoons when it comes to coding games, or they're full of c.r.a.p.. I say equal parts of each, 50/50..
    The intention, as will all businesses is/was to make a profit.
    The concept was how to go about making that profit.
    My mantra will comtinue until the devs either "get it" and fix it or continue to "fix" the symptoms. NPC's production and capacities are rigid and fixed. That was and is the only factor in this ongoing NPC-realted debacle.

    Just fix the NPC production limits and total capacities adn all will be well (on newer servers as the old server are fubar'd.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruyan View Post
    Well, my objective has become quite clear: move my army and resources to one city, barb the rest and say good bye to Evony. If I wanted Groundhog Day, I'd watch the movie. Because, frankly, that's what this game has become after close to three months of playing daily: check in, maybe grab a lake back that some noob insists on attacking, send out the Tax Collectors right after maintenance, maybe queue up a few more troops, check out.
    Have you driven off all of your neighbors? Has your alliance conquered its primary state? Have you taken over the world?

    Much work remains to be done.
    Last edited by Kempion; 06-18-2009 at 05:04 AM.

  4. #4

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    Most people have little interesting in putting time and effort into simply ruining the game for other people Kempion. They wish to advance. Progress. Become stronger, better, faster. Accomplish things other then destroying the work of others just to do it.

    If the end game of Evony is just chain griefing people weaker then you until they quit, then it is going to be short lived.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by kassikas View Post
    Most people have little interesting in putting time and effort into simply ruining the game for other people Kempion. They wish to advance. Progress. Become stronger, better, faster. Accomplish things other then destroying the work of others just to do it.

    If the end game of Evony is just chain griefing people weaker then you until they quit, then it is going to be short lived.

    What can be accomplished when you have advanced and become stronger ?? keep striving for lvl 10 of every structure..and then what ??

    Build, Produce and Conquer, attack other alliances, punish their players make them teleport out or stand their ground, co-ordinate attacks, laugh and joke about it in alliance chat.

    End game in a game such as this is where you allow it to be, if your happy farming npc's then i will make you fight, if you dont wish to fight and just wish to defend, then i will make it the goal of the alliance i am in to make you accept defeat

  6. #6
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    An alliance can only control 1,000 cities max. The game has 1,000,000 squares on each server. You can't control a server (not without spending 1,000 of $ on teleports). Place Kemp on your ignore list.

    As soon as I saw the 10 spaces for my villages, I knew that this game would suffer for the lack of expansion. I'm with kass. I've quit several servers because I've maxed out and got board. And before all you whinners start crying "just go fight someone" there is no one within 100 miles of me that is even half my score. If I attack them, you'll start whinning about me being a bully. It's a lack of longterm planning from the devs and new players that cause the problems in this game.

  7. #7

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    Kassikas, thank you for this thorough and well-reasoned post. You make an excellent point.
    Legendary Hero

  8. #8

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    Kass has a very good point and I admit that I do find it frustrating as well.

    If you dont want us building armies then what is it you expect us to do?

    If there is some kind of cooperative goal (save the Queen!) then maybe tell us about it?

    If you don't give us an objective then of course we'll make our own.

  9. #9
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    Well, my objective has become quite clear: move my army and resources to one city, barb the rest and say good bye to Evony. If I wanted Groundhog Day, I'd watch the movie. Because, frankly, that's what this game has become after close to three months of playing daily: check in, maybe grab a lake back that some noob insists on attacking, send out the Tax Collectors right after maintenance, maybe queue up a few more troops, check out.
    Science never sleeps...

  10. #10

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    What you all talking about? There is end game. You've got your own alliance and there is other alliances. Start some alliance wars and stop pampering your troops.

    Quote Originally Posted by kassikas View Post
    Troops are just another form of resource, just like food and gold and wood and such. No one wants to spend their resources on something less valuable then what they already have. No one would spend a million wood on ten thousand wood would they? Why would they spend troops that take hours to build and millions of resources on hundreds of thousands of resources?

    If they do use those troops to gain resources, they only do it for a decent profit, as troops require both resources AND time to build. And what do people spend those resources on after their cities and techs are maxed out?

    More troops. That is the only thing they can spend their resources on.

    This is called inflation. A 100k army is devalued because the only thing there is worth getting your troops killed for is enough resources to build a larger, say 150k army.

    Then a 150k army is devalued because the only thing worth spending it on is a 225k army.

    Then the 225k army is devalued because the only thing worth spending it on is a 338k army.

    And so on and so on until people have millions of troops.
    This issue exist only in the heads of people who think that way. For now, the Evony game enviroment gives you plent of options what to spend your troops on. If a player is here to have the biggest army, nothing will change his mind. The same way as each server has some obsessive prestige farmers. The NPC nerfs are what will/is killing the end game.

    The combat mechanics as they are will make it unplayable with too small army cap.
    Last edited by Valuk; 06-18-2009 at 05:27 AM.

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