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Thread: Why not to reset to 0 prestiege - some reasonable arguments

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  1. #1
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    I'd go one step further, and say that there is no reason to even reset prestige at all. If you can do something within the rules of the game (which for a computer games, means by manually using the intended client) then it is by definition not cheating.

    Insinuating that people who optimized their prestige growth are "cheaters" is both offensive and inane. The goal of this game is to optimize. You optimize resource production, army production, hero strengths, reach, alliance size, etc. Why should optimizing prestige be any different?

    The fault of the fact that some people discovered a quick way to get prestige is actually the fault of the developers. They built a game with a flaw. Calling it an "exploit" or "cheating" is simply a weak way of obviating their own responsibility for building a flawed system.

    I had well over 1M prestige before I learned of the 2k-warrior-on-level-10-NPC technique, and when I discovered it I tested it a bunch of times, then calculated that I could get about 5.7M prestige per day. Since there was nothing left for me to do in the game I though that taking down the long time prestige hunters on my server was a worthy goal. Instead they changed the rules.

    That's ok. They did the same thing to everyone. The guys on my server who got to 2M prestige by hunting got there fair and square, because they learned more about the game, and did it faster than I did. Good for them.

    That's exactly what you're supposed to do in an optimization game, optimize.

    Taking away their prestige, and that of those of us who tried to compete with them, is simply poor sportsmanship.

    Congress wanted to do the same thing to the CEOs and other executives of the TARP banks who took huge bonuses after receiving government money. The House of Representatives even passed a bill trying to tax those bonuses away. Then the Senate (and many Congressmen in hindsight) realized that despite the fact that it felt like people were "taking advantage" or "being unfair" or "exploiting the system" the realized that the contracts they had set up with these companies did not prohibit their bonuses. And despite the fact that they didn't like it, they realized that the executives were playing within the rules. They rescinded their witch-hunt, and just changed the rules going forward.

    They realized that changing the rules of a game retroactively, that calling something "cheating" after the fact, is wrong. Its unfair. Its un-American. Its unjust.



    You want to punish people for finding the problems in your system? Fine. Nerf the prestige. BUT HOW DARE YOU CALL US CHEATERS? You have no right.


    Capriciously changing the rules and specifically targeting behaviors which had been within legitimate boundaries of the game, well, now that...that is cheating. Shame on you.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    BFE IL, Middle of a dayum cornfield
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    2,443

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    Quote Originally Posted by WisdomSeeker View Post
    I'd go one step further, and say that there is no reason to even reset prestige at all. If you can do something within the rules of the game (which for a computer games, means by manually using the intended client) then it is by definition not cheating.
    An exploit is not a cheat. Cheat is used by third party software in most cases. An exploit is an abuse of the game mechanics. And yes, most exploits are because it is a mistake created by the developers. For example: in WOW there was an exploit to kill on the bosses in the Naxxramas dungeon by having everyone stand in a spot in the corner to avoid the floor flaming upwards, where the developers intended everyone to do a dance across the floor. This is an exploit. It is up to the player to use common sense and avoid this.

    Insinuating that people who optimized their prestige growth are "cheaters" is both offensive and inane. The goal of this game is to optimize. You optimize resource production, army production, hero strengths, reach, alliance size, etc. Why should optimizing prestige be any different?
    Prestige is supposed to work as a number that qualifies how developed a player is. It is a flaw for the developer to have allowed a warrior army to suicide and give prestige gains. It is up to the player to know that, and not drive it to astronomical numbers, ruining it for other players.

    The fault of the fact that some people discovered a quick way to get prestige is actually the fault of the developers. They built a game with a flaw. Calling it an "exploit" or "cheating" is simply a weak way of obviating their own responsibility for building a flawed system.
    Yep its a developer flaw. That is where an exploit comes from. Now players use that flaw over-and-over to gain astronomical amounts of prestige. That is abusing the flaw. Hence that = exploit.

    I had well over 1M prestige before I learned of the 2k-warrior-on-level-10-NPC technique, and when I discovered it I tested it a bunch of times, then calculated that I could get about 5.7M prestige per day. Since there was nothing left for me to do in the game I though that taking down the long time prestige hunters on my server was a worthy goal. Instead they changed the rules.

    That's ok. They did the same thing to everyone. The guys on my server who got to 2M prestige by hunting got there fair and square, because they learned more about the game, and did it faster than I did. Good for them.

    That's exactly what you're supposed to do in an optimization game, optimize.

    Taking away their prestige, and that of those of us who tried to compete with them, is simply poor sportsmanship.
    Poor sportsmanship is the ones who used a system to pump up that number by exploiting. While those punished got a one time reset to 0, those that have struggled to stay on top with prestige without exploiting have sufferred in gameplay for months.

    Congress wanted to do the same thing to the CEOs and other executives of the TARP banks who took huge bonuses after receiving government money. The House of Representatives even passed a bill trying to tax those bonuses away. Then the Senate (and many Congressmen in hindsight) realized that despite the fact that it felt like people were "taking advantage" or "being unfair" or "exploiting the system" the realized that the contracts they had set up with these companies did not prohibit their bonuses. And despite the fact that they didn't like it, they realized that the executives were playing within the rules. They rescinded their witch-hunt, and just changed the rules going forward.

    They realized that changing the rules of a game retroactively, that calling something "cheating" after the fact, is wrong. Its unfair. Its un-American. Its unjust.
    This is moot. Anytime you take a RL circumstance and try to plug it into a browser game's rules, I simply ignore all of it. Apples and Oranges.


    You want to punish people for finding the problems in your system? Fine. Nerf the prestige. BUT HOW DARE YOU CALL US CHEATERS? You have no right.
    Read the terms of service. You are playing their game. They set the rules and you follow them.

    Capriciously changing the rules and specifically targeting behaviors which had been within legitimate boundaries of the game, well, now that...that is cheating. Shame on you.
    I hope that you don't bring up the 2 step threat:
    1) I'm a paying customer and I won't pay anymore.
    2) I quit.

    because

    1) You'll get replaced by 2 paying customers.
    2) You'll be replaced by 5 new players.

    "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind" ~Einstein
    "lol well wine usually helps boost the wood"~LG
    "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather."~Bill Hicks

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by chinothepony View Post
    1) You'll get replaced by 2 paying customers.
    2) You'll be replaced by 5 new players.
    While most of your post makes intelligent arguments (some of which I happen to disagree with, obviously), this one's a little silly. Alienating some the top players will not attract more paying customers than would have come otherwise, and an intelligent business doesn't make moves that lose them 1% of their paying customers with no possible gain. You'll never see Hershey saying "if we change the recipe of one of our chocolate bars, we won't save any money and the chocolate won't taste any better, but at least we'll lose a million customers. Let's do it! After all, we're bound to gain more customers eventually!"

    People make your sort of "if you don't like it, leave" argument frequently. While it's a satisfying thing to say from a player's standpoint, it's a very bad business model.

  4. #4

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    I remember none other than Dawnseeker proclaiming in this forum:

    "If you want to be honorable, then be honorable."

    The implied statement is, if you want to be dishonorable, then you are also allowed to be dishonorable.

    Discovering exploits and utilizing them IS part of playing a computer game, sportsmanship or not. Some may argue it to be dishonorable but until the game code addresses it, no one can predict if the programmers believe this is "Cheating" or a legitimate way to build your prestige. Though I did not practice this exploit, I strongly disagree resetting these player's prestige to zero. If they found the exploit, good for them. In fact developers should be grateful that these players tested their system and finding it out as they perfect their product.
    Last edited by cyberguerilla; 06-22-2009 at 06:47 PM.

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