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Thread: Rules Clarification?

  1. #11

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    Negative Zero... i don't quite know what to make of you... everything WisdomSeeker has said here, I inteprerate as being HIGHLY SERIOUS.

    Please think seriously before you waste everybodies time.

    You reek of the fowl stench of jealousy and silly (not to be taken seriousness)...

    I wonder if you are even good player or not?

    I mean truly, not just in your head.

  2. #12
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    see thats the thing here...noone knows its an exploit until they tell us its one, unfortunately they don't know how their own game works and don't do anything until people cry about it.
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  3. #13
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    Default Not joking...

    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeZero View Post
    These are some of the stupid questions with obvious answers that subtract from the seriousness of this thread:

    3) building towns with 18 or more barracks?

    6) launching an attack at 2am?

    7) launching a major attack against a well armed opponent, then hitting the Evony server with a DoS (denial of service) attack so that they can't get online to do anything about it?

    18) playing 10 hours per day? 15? 20?

    27) drawing a map by hand?

    32) giving advice to a new player in your alliance?

    Don't get me wrong I think you have some EXCELLENT and IMPORTANT points. That's why i want you to take out the jokes and really concentrate on some of the important questions being asked here.

    Ok, sorry. So which of these are OK and which are not? Are they all OK? Even 7?

    For 32, suppose I told a new player how to gain prestige by whacking 2k warriors into level 10NPCs?

    How can a player realistically play 20 hours? Aren't they necessarily cheating? Perhaps they've got a team of players? Maybe they're using drugs. Is Evony advocating drug use?

    Is it fair to attack another player when you know they're sleeping? Its certainly not sportmanlike. Is it cheating?



    What might be reasonable to you might not be to me, or to someone else? How is it fair to a single working mother of three to have to compete with teenagers on summer break?


    The problem is, if you can't draw the line in a reasonable place, where do you draw the line?


    These were not meant to be funny. Unless everything within normal gameplay is legal, someone really needs to specifically spell out whats legal and whats not.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdogg34 View Post
    see thats the thing here...noone knows its an exploit until they tell us its one, unfortunately they don't know how their own game works and don't do anything until people cry about it.
    I'm sorry, I don't usually get irritated over forums, but do you REALLY mean to tell me that you figured being able to suicide the weakest soldiers into high level npcs repeatedly was the intended way to gain prestige? Please... not one person I have talked to remotely doubted (even before this) that doing that was completely exploitative and not intended, and now people are just mad that they gambled by doing something that was extremely obvious to 95+% of the population was exploit, and have been caught and punished, something very few games have done. They may have been justified more if they had posted a warning in advance and announced it by mails that "There is a certain technique which players are using to gain ridiculous amounts of prestige extremely fast that makes no actual sense, said technique is considered to be illegal and punishment will be handed out", but seriously, you mean to tell me you actually thought this was a sensible and legal way to accrue prestige? You aren't that dumb, stop pretending you are.
    You load sixteen tons, what do you get
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vecius View Post
    I'm sorry, I don't usually get irritated over forums, but do you REALLY mean to tell me that you figured being able to suicide the weakest soldiers into high level npcs repeatedly was the intended way to gain prestige? Please... not one person I have talked to remotely doubted (even before this) that doing that was completely exploitative and not intended, and now people are just mad that they gambled by doing something that was extremely obvious to 95+% of the population was exploit, and have been caught and punished, something very few games have done. They may have been justified more if they had posted a warning in advance and announced it by mails that "There is a certain technique which players are using to gain ridiculous amounts of prestige extremely fast that makes no actual sense, said technique is considered to be illegal and punishment will be handed out", but seriously, you mean to tell me you actually thought this was a sensible and legal way to accrue prestige? You aren't that dumb, stop pretending you are.
    The whole problem with your post, and the reson for the nerf in general, is that there is no way to tell the difference between those who were prestige farming, and those who were using tactics to wear down Lv 10 NPCs. Sending warriors and transports in small numbers, will clear out many defences, lowering the losses to your main attack force. I always send several waves like this to wear them down, before taking them. According to you, using such tactics would make me a cheater simple because I gained large amounts of prestige while preparing for an actual assault. Should I be punished for using the best tactic for wearing down a NPC? Let's be real here. The ONLY reason for this is to drive away established players, who have massive armies (note that low prestige players can still prestige farm). The devs tried to do this with the NPC nerf and failed. This is mearly their next attempt.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valin View Post
    The whole problem with your post, and the reson for the nerf in general, is that there is no way to tell the difference between those who were prestige farming, and those who were using tactics to wear down Lv 10 NPCs. Sending warriors and transports in small numbers, will clear out many defences, lowering the losses to your main attack force. I always send several waves like this to wear them down, before taking them. According to you, using such tactics would make me a cheater simple because I gained large amounts of prestige while preparing for an actual assault. Should I be punished for using the best tactic for wearing down a NPC? Let's be real here. The ONLY reason for this is to drive away established players, who have massive armies (note that low prestige players can still prestige farm). The devs tried to do this with the NPC nerf and failed. This is mearly their next attempt.
    This is tantamount to trying to find a legal loophole to show that there may be some teency sliver of doubt for anyone punished that they may not have been intending to use this as a cheat technique; therefore, nobody can be punished. It's a completely illogical argument; there may be the odd player who got punished because of this flaw, but you cannot say that it's unfair to punish anyone who obviously exploited this massively because there is an extremely small possibility they weren't trying to benefit from it. Those cases should be handled on an individual level, and although you could argue they have poor customer service and slow response time, that's an absolutely baseless argument for saying that no one should be held accountable.

    For the record, there are people I know who have taken lvl 10 npcs by using warriors to blow out defenses, and these people didn't gain hundreds of thousands of honor from doing it and thus haven't been reset.
    You load sixteen tons, what do you get
    Another day older and deeper in debt
    Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vecius View Post
    This is tantamount to trying to find a legal loophole to show that there may be some teency sliver of doubt for anyone punished that they may not have been intending to use this as a cheat technique; therefore, nobody can be punished. It's a completely illogical argument; there may be the odd player who got punished because of this flaw, but you cannot say that it's unfair to punish anyone who obviously exploited this massively because there is an extremely small possibility they weren't trying to benefit from it. Those cases should be handled on an individual level, and although you could argue they have poor customer service and slow response time, that's an absolutely baseless argument for saying that no one should be held accountable.

    For the record, there are people I know who have taken lvl 10 npcs by using warriors to blow out defenses, and these people didn't gain hundreds of thousands of honor from doing it and thus haven't been reset.
    There is no legal loophole, but there is legal precedent. This is the third “exploit” nerf. The first was the medal farming; the second NPC farming; and now the third, prestige farming. The first two were taken away, but no players were directly punished for doing it, therefore, the precedent for “exploits” is to simply removing them. This time, however, Evony broke from that pattern, and directly punished players for something that was never officially labeled as an exploit. Following your legality scenario, then any defense lawyer could cite the first two cases to justify that the punishment for the exact same crime, was not fitting previous legal action. It’s the same as if three people commit the exact same crime; the first two are put on probation, but the third goes to jail for life. The judge would have to follow the sentencing of the first two cases because punishing someone with a much greater penalty could be construed as cruel and unusual punishment. The punishment did not fit the stated crime. Thus, no prestige should have been taken away.

    Your "there are some people who didn't do it and didn't get reset" is offset by the fact that there are those who DID do it and weren't reset. This was very selective.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vecius View Post
    I'm sorry, I don't usually get irritated over forums, but do you REALLY mean to tell me that you figured being able to suicide the weakest soldiers into high level npcs repeatedly was the intended way to gain prestige? Please... not one person I have talked to remotely doubted (even before this) that doing that was completely exploitative and not intended, and now people are just mad that they gambled by doing something that was extremely obvious to 95+% of the population was exploit, and have been caught and punished, something very few games have done. They may have been justified more if they had posted a warning in advance and announced it by mails that "There is a certain technique which players are using to gain ridiculous amounts of prestige extremely fast that makes no actual sense, said technique is considered to be illegal and punishment will be handed out", but seriously, you mean to tell me you actually thought this was a sensible and legal way to accrue prestige? You aren't that dumb, stop pretending you are.
    no i think its bull**** that you are allowed to gain prestige by killing your soldiers, i think the battle mechanics of this game are bull**** too...thats why suiciding warriors into heavy defense is a SMART tactic now.....since the game allowed prestige to be given for this, its on the game, not the players...i admit i used this method for a day....I will continue to use this method until they change the defense mechanics.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valin View Post
    There is no legal loophole, but there is legal precedent. This is the third “exploit” nerf. The first was the medal farming; the second NPC farming; and now the third, prestige farming. The first two were taken away, but no players were directly punished for doing it, therefore, the precedent for “exploits” is to simply removing them. This time, however, Evony broke from that pattern, and directly punished players for something that was never officially labeled as an exploit. Following your legality scenario, then any defense lawyer could cite the first two cases to justify that the punishment for the exact same crime, was not fitting previous legal action. It’s the same as if three people commit the exact same crime; the first two are put on probation, but the third goes to jail for life. The judge would have to follow the sentencing of the first two cases because punishing someone with a much greater penalty could be construed as cruel and unusual punishment. The punishment did not fit the stated crime. Thus, no prestige should have been taken away.

    Your "there are some people who didn't do it and didn't get reset" is offset by the fact that there are those who DID do it and weren't reset. This was very selective.
    I think you are a smart person from what I've seen you post in the past, and I do accept your opinion that this punishment was excessively harsh, however your metaphor doesn't make any sense because the crimes committed (different exploits) weren't the same crime (exploit) in game. It would be more accurate to say you have one person caught for armed robbery, one caught for attempted murder and one for first degree murder, and in my opinion you can't say that just because all they did about the first two was improve the security systems at the store and put the attempted murder guy on probation, you cannot punish the guy who did a different crime. They may well have underpunished for the first two, but that doesn't mean there should be no punishments for any crime.

    And the fact that not everyone was caught is tantamount to the fact that some people don't get caught for murder, and the occasional person (in my scenario) gets wrongfully arrested, but may well be found not guilty in a trial (the complaint thing, in which they have now stated they are processing, but aren't done yet). Okay, we may be blowing things out of proportion by comparing this to a legal system, but there is absolutely no reason in my eyes that you can make a compelling argument that every player who was punished, even the large majority who did exploit the hell out of this, should be exonerated because there may be completely unrelated precedents.


    EDIT (For above): Again, my other arguments say that sure, there may have been people who suicided into defenses for reasons other than gaining honor, but those people should be able to prove their innocence by showing that they didn't use it excessively for cities they weren't even planning to attack or take over, and didn't gain millions of prestige from it. You can't allow everyone to go free because one person might have committed a crime accidentally, you check to make sure each person is being appropriately punished. I would be absolutely irate if they give back everyone's prestige due to the complaining, as a matter of fact, why don't I threaten to start an emo campaign saying I'll protest harshly here and maybe even quit IF every cheater gets their full prestige back. The people who were using this as a valid strategy shouldn't have gained hundreds of thousands of prestige from it, and battle reports should be able to prove you were intending to attack said cities.
    Last edited by Vecius; 06-22-2009 at 10:47 PM.
    You load sixteen tons, what do you get
    Another day older and deeper in debt
    Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
    I owe my soul to the company store

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vecius View Post
    I think you are a smart person from what I've seen you post in the past, and I do accept your opinion that this punishment was excessively harsh, however your metaphor doesn't make any sense because the crimes committed (different exploits) weren't the same crime (exploit) in game. It would be more accurate to say you have one person caught for armed robbery, one caught for attempted murder and one for first degree murder, and in my opinion you can't say that just because all they did about the first two was improve the security systems at the store and put the attempted murder guy on probation, you cannot punish the guy who did a different crime. They may well have underpunished for the first two, but that doesn't mean there should be no punishments for any crime.

    And the fact that not everyone was caught is tantamount to the fact that some people don't get caught for murder, and the occasional person (in my scenario) gets wrongfully arrested, but may well be found not guilty in a trial (the complaint thing, in which they have now stated they are processing, but aren't done yet). Okay, we may be blowing things out of proportion by comparing this to a legal system, but there is absolutely no reason in my eyes that you can make a compelling argument that every player who was punished, even the large majority who did exploit the hell out of this, should be exonerated because there may be completely unrelated precedents.


    EDIT (For above): Again, my other arguments say that sure, there may have been people who suicided into defenses for reasons other than gaining honor, but those people should be able to prove their innocence by showing that they didn't use it excessively for cities they weren't even planning to attack or take over, and didn't gain millions of prestige from it. You can't allow everyone to go free because one person might have committed a crime accidentally, you check to make sure each person is being appropriately punished. I would be absolutely irate if they give back everyone's prestige due to the complaining, as a matter of fact, why don't I threaten to start an emo campaign saying I'll protest harshly here and maybe even quit IF every cheater gets their full prestige back. The people who were using this as a valid strategy shouldn't have gained hundreds of thousands of prestige from it, and battle reports should be able to prove you were intending to attack said cities.
    I guess we’re just down to arguing semantics now. It doesn’t really matter anyways, as the devs will do what the devs want to do. Dawnseeker has started a poll about weather it should be restored, and restored is ahead, so expect another change soon. I still know almost half a dozen ways to rapid build prestige, so if I really wanted it, I WILL get it. In fact, anyone who has studied the mechanics as much as I have, know multiple ways to get ahead in this game. I still get flamed for stating that a 1.25 million archer army with support troops is VERY easy to maintain. You can go off line for a month, and it will still be there. The only lasting result to all these nerfs, is that the guide forums are dyeing off and there is a massive forum war among players. Regardless of what side you land on, the changes themselves are tearing apart the community, and that’s death for a community based game.

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