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Thread: Rules Clarification?

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdogg34 View Post
    see thats the thing here...noone knows its an exploit until they tell us its one, unfortunately they don't know how their own game works and don't do anything until people cry about it.
    Do you know anything about development? Things don't happen until it happens. Not one thing is exploit proof and please let me clear this up for everyone

    EXPLOIT: To use an illegitimate advantage to get an edge over a user

    This is not a hack, not a cheat, not a macro, not a glitch.

    Game devs don't know whats wrong until players DO complain about it or post something on the issue.

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meph7447 View Post
    Do you know anything about development? Things don't happen until it happens. Not one thing is exploit proof and please let me clear this up for everyone

    EXPLOIT: To use an illegitimate advantage to get an edge over a user

    This is not a hack, not a cheat, not a macro, not a glitch.

    Game devs don't know whats wrong until players DO complain about it or post something on the issue.
    no. No. nO. NO. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Vecius and I had such a good debate going on, and now it's ruined by another "do you know anything" post. I though I got out of all the drama on the last thread, but it's back. Why God. Why.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meph7447 View Post
    Do you know anything about development? Things don't happen until it happens. Not one thing is exploit proof and please let me clear this up for everyone

    EXPLOIT: To use an illegitimate advantage to get an edge over a user

    This is not a hack, not a cheat, not a macro, not a glitch.

    Game devs don't know whats wrong until players DO complain about it or post something on the issue.
    Thankyou for clearing that up...in that case they shouldn't punish the players for their mistakes. All they had to do is what they did, by stopping prestige gain for losing soldiers.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valin View Post
    I guess we’re just down to arguing semantics now. It doesn’t really matter anyways, as the devs will do what the devs want to do. Dawnseeker has started a poll about weather it should be restored, and restored is ahead, so expect another change soon. I still know almost half a dozen ways to rapid build prestige, so if I really wanted it, I WILL get it. In fact, anyone who has studied the mechanics as much as I have, know multiple ways to get ahead in this game. I still get flamed for stating that a 1.25 million archer army with support troops is VERY easy to maintain. You can go off line for a month, and it will still be there. The only lasting result to all these nerfs, is that the guide forums are dyeing off and there is a massive forum war among players. Regardless of what side you land on, the changes themselves are tearing apart the community, and that’s death for a community based game.
    I guess you're right, it really does come down to the opinions of individuals, and it's all moot because because the company has made up their mind. If I had done that (I'll admit, it was tempting), or lost all my prestige due to using warriors to clear traps instead of for exploiting purposes, I'd be right alongside you arguing in favor of getting everything turned back. I just like seeing people who did exploit punished for once in my life, even though there were some innocent victims.
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  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeZero View Post
    These are some of the stupid questions with obvious answers that subtract from the seriousness of this thread:

    3) building towns with 18 or more barracks?

    6) launching an attack at 2am?

    7) launching a major attack against a well armed opponent, then hitting the Evony server with a DoS (denial of service) attack so that they can't get online to do anything about it?

    18) playing 10 hours per day? 15? 20?

    27) drawing a map by hand?

    32) giving advice to a new player in your alliance?

    Don't get me wrong I think you have some EXCELLENT and IMPORTANT points. That's why i want you to take out the jokes and really concentrate on some of the important questions being asked here.
    Actually, 27) is really useful and may be considered a cheat. Mods purposely placed a limit on the co-ords list to ensure that u cant map out the whole game. But what if you really draw it out... including everything you see. In a month, you most likely map yr whole region, a year... the whole game map maybe.

    Luckily, it is impossible for mods to know that you are doing this unless they barge into your house and search it

    And 32) may be a reason so many ppl are doing NPC pres farming. Maybe they join as new players, then their allies tell them this secret and thinking its just a method, they use it.

    Also a few really important point which i hope is not called exploiting :

    ?) Placing resources in the market before you log off and in event of an attack.

    ?) Layering your army with one of everything to protect your more important troops

    ?) In event of a massive attack on a high lvl city of yours, barb the city, wait for the enemy's attack to strike and weaken or destroy all the def then retake the city.

    ?) Upgrade your Town hall to lvl10 and leave everything else at low lvls, then barb the city and retake it to have lvl10 of everything (I bet this one is an exploit, though it is hard to tell)
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  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vecius View Post
    I think you are a smart person from what I've seen you post in the past, and I do accept your opinion that this punishment was excessively harsh, however your metaphor doesn't make any sense because the crimes committed (different exploits) weren't the same crime (exploit) in game. It would be more accurate to say you have one person caught for armed robbery, one caught for attempted murder and one for first degree murder, and in my opinion you can't say that just because all they did about the first two was improve the security systems at the store and put the attempted murder guy on probation, you cannot punish the guy who did a different crime. They may well have underpunished for the first two, but that doesn't mean there should be no punishments for any crime.

    And the fact that not everyone was caught is tantamount to the fact that some people don't get caught for murder, and the occasional person (in my scenario) gets wrongfully arrested, but may well be found not guilty in a trial (the complaint thing, in which they have now stated they are processing, but aren't done yet). Okay, we may be blowing things out of proportion by comparing this to a legal system, but there is absolutely no reason in my eyes that you can make a compelling argument that every player who was punished, even the large majority who did exploit the hell out of this, should be exonerated because there may be completely unrelated precedents.


    EDIT (For above): Again, my other arguments say that sure, there may have been people who suicided into defenses for reasons other than gaining honor, but those people should be able to prove their innocence by showing that they didn't use it excessively for cities they weren't even planning to attack or take over, and didn't gain millions of prestige from it. You can't allow everyone to go free because one person might have committed a crime accidentally, you check to make sure each person is being appropriately punished. I would be absolutely irate if they give back everyone's prestige due to the complaining, as a matter of fact, why don't I threaten to start an emo campaign saying I'll protest harshly here and maybe even quit IF every cheater gets their full prestige back. The people who were using this as a valid strategy shouldn't have gained hundreds of thousands of prestige from it, and battle reports should be able to prove you were intending to attack said cities.
    Just to point this out, pres farming is actually the less serious exploit. After all, what is prestage but a form of ranking. And 1mil pres gained from the exploit, in fact means 1mil warriors wasted. I think these warriors could be put to better use. Therefore, prestage farming is not harming other players and is in fact used to the detriment of the exploiter. (Metaphor: A thief who steals a piece of junk and wastes his time)

    Medal farming allows a player to rush through all the ranks. Although this makes the game boring for the exploiters, these exploiters gets more cities and therefore post a unfair threat to other players. (Metaphor: A robber who robs a bank and injures a few people)

    NPC farming allows a player to support a huge army, one the game isnt designed for. This army poses a huge threat to everyone nearby. (Metaphor: A murder who threatens the lives of others)

    Who do you think deserves the worst punishment? Therefore, i think you are actually contridicting yourself.
    Demons relent,
    Obey my command,
    Bring forth your fiery ocean,
    Bring forth your mighty destruction.

    MAKE THIS LAND BURN!!!

  7. #27

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    You have a good point on this thread, even if I see a few things off-topic and a few things simply trying to derail the constructive feedback.

    May I suggest you keep adding to this list; Dawnseeker, Swansea and myself can take a look and champion it.

  8. #28

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    Really, this is the problem with the game. There are far too many things that can give a player that illegitimate advantage, yet the mechanics and/or the 'storyline' (for lack of a better descriptive) of the game appear to make it permissible. Take for example attacking NPC cities. The storyline makes it pretty clear that we should be doing this, but the mechanics create an 'exploit' by not allowing the barb city to be destroyed if the lord is at max cities for his level. Likewise, we're not told if the exploit is such, if one is attacking a game created NPC or a player one. To me, I would think that player created NPC's are the exploit.
    Then we have unbalances, such as the barracks town. Perfectly acceptable, since the mechanics of the game allow for barracks to be built on every available square. Yet this gives a genuine illegitimate advantage for players with more cities over those with less. Coupled with the Dev's claim that it was never their intention that we be able to produce and field massive armies, surely this is an exploit as well...
    If the devs really cared about those things that do give players that illegitimate advantage, then they would address them, but so far (apart from the medal nerf) all I've really seen is a series of improvements that tend to push the player away from attacking the NPC's and using whatever 'advantage' he has against his fellow players.
    Last edited by Archangel; 06-23-2009 at 07:25 AM. Reason: left out word. context affected slightly

  9. #29
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    54) Camping resources in a flat while a town is being attacked, so they receive 0 plunder.

    55) Waiting until your town is at 5 loyalty during a siege, and NPCing it 5 seconds before the enemies assault wave hits, so you destroy his army & keep him from taking your city.

    56) Having stronger alliance members get an enemies city down to 0, but not take the city and then let a low level member send 500 cav to conquer the town.

    57) Boot a member from alliance so you can trade towns, then let them back into the alliance.

  10. #30

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    I think this is an excellent set of questions, and I don't think ANY of the questions are stupid or can be assumed by "common sense", except the actual hacking ones. (A DoS attack on the server would constitute a prosecutable international crime.)

    But I've always figured if the game allows me to do something, then it allows anyone to do it, and as long as I'm not using a script or cheat code and staying within the limits of the coding, without a manual how do I know what they intended to be for game play?

    NegativeZero thought that these were "stupid questions with obvious answers" for example, but the answers aren't obvious to me at all, a college-educated engineer with decades of proffessional experience:

    3) building towns with 18 or more barracks?
    What is the obvious answer? There's 32 spaces in a city, what if I decide to fill 20 of them with barracks and 12 with cottages and just build warriors? How is this "obvious" when we have the freedom to build what we want?

    6) launching an attack at 2am?
    Some might think that being attacked at 2am is an obvious unfair advantage, knowing the player is probably offline, but which time zone? People from every continent on Earth play this game, 2am for one player may very well be 9am for another and 7pm for another. Are we to know the time zone of each player and only attack them in their own time zone?

    7) launching a major attack against a well armed opponent, then hitting the Evony server with a DoS (denial of service) attack so that they can't get online to do anything about it?
    This is the only obvious one that I see... criminal behavior enforceable by known laws.

    18) playing 10 hours per day? 15? 20?
    What if I'm on vacation and want to play 24-hours straight one day? What if the game is on in the background while I'm at work for 10hrs? Again, what is the "obvious" answer here? Maybe you meant that people should obviously be allowed to play as many hours as they want, and that's why there's no time limit on your use of the service? I can accept that, I suppose.

    27) drawing a map by hand?
    Maybe the obvious answer is that this would create an unfair advantage, knowing where everyone is located? Or maybe the obvious answer is that this is a waste of time that nobody would possibly do? I can almost guarantee that there are sketches on paper next to many peoples' computers or even scraps of paper with co-ordinates written all over them.

    32) giving advice to a new player in your alliance?
    Well, I would have thought the obvious answer was, "Of course you can give advice to a new player in your alliance", but now I wouldn't be so sure. If it's a "crime" to use the fact that warriors are worth less than the defenses that kill them, and that the math coded into the game gives a prestige bonus to a player who takes less loss-value than he/she inflicts in an attack, then quite possibly it's a "crime" to share that fact to someone else? Maybe some of the ones who took such gains will say, "but playerx in my alliance told me it was okay", and next thing they're punishing "playerx" as an accessory?

    If there's a road with no posted speed limit whatsoever, how fast should people be allowed to drive before they are cited and fined? It's very debatable, and each person will think his/her answer is strongly obvious even though each answer will be different. The only way for a driver to know how fast he/she is allowed to drive is by making the law plain and clear BEFORE punishing anyone at all. I strongly believe that you should not punish people for a "crime" unless there's a public code somewhere that specifically defines such a thing as a "crime". If it's an "unintended exploit", fine, fix it, but to call it a "crime" and inflict punishment without a written code is just wrong unless you're a tyrannical Monarch, and even then it's evil.

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