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Thread: The Devs Ruined Scouts -OR- The Devs Fixed Scouts?

  1. #101
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    What all these changes boil down to is this: cut down on troops. Take a look at all the changes the devs have made the last few weeks, and you'll see a clear pattern: reduction of troop numbers through ham-fisted (and sometimes stealthy) tweaks to core game mechanics. Now they want us to get rid of all our scouts. Once again, the "balanced use of units" that the devs advocate went out the window.

    I'm really curious: what was so wrong with the old system that warranted this change? I know I've already provided an answer for that, but I'd really like to hear the devs' side.
    Science never sleeps...

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by anywon View Post
    PS. You know, it wouldn't even help to make it 90% detection. Big deal .. so I send 1 scout 10 times.
    Your last point is a damn good one. There should be nothing "random"
    about scouting. You either have the capability to scout or you don't. i.e. You have maxed technology or you're urged to get higher if you want to scout higher......that's simple!!

    Equally, those like myself (many), on maxed levels of informatics and beacons.....have WASTED.....their money on Scripts. Thanks Evony for ripping me off and wasting all my time upgrading my beacons.

    As it stands now, my castles are windows to the world. Mt scout training was waste and so was my recruitment. So too all the time I wasted training and upgrading my intel hero's which are now also nearly as useless as playing this "war" game. Which incidentally is not a war game since no castle I ever heard of in history had shop front windows in it where the entire human race could see inside. They had moats, battlements, scouts and troops, exactly for the opposite of reasons, so you have just went and completely *******ized this game with this stupid change.

    Item:
    That castle has lvl 10 archery and 200k scouts in it. It's a food farm that's all but it's got 100 million in gold there because the player thought if he left plenty scouts in, no one would see it. I can attack that with a couple of thousand archers and take his gold because the silly sod thinks 200k scouts would keep out my super low level spy with half the intelligence he has. In fact I only need to send one spy in so he's wasted all his time getting that intelligence and working his hero into the ground to upgrade him. He must be a fool I guess. OR maybe he was just conned by Evony.

  3. #103

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    Seems that the scout report doesn't include what tech you have at your disposal. I checked against some of my earlier reports and the tech and it's level is missing. Either that or the scout reports I just got are bugged. That wouldn't surprise me either.
    Then again, I doubt there would be few seasoned players who couldn't second guess what units and defences would be in a city based on a player's statistics...

  4. #104

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    "Evony is a dynamic game which is contantly evolving"

    i.e. As soon as you've spent your money and time making intel and other tech as high as possible and as soon as you've wasted your time training all your troops, we'll change the mechanics, destroy them for you, make you do it all over again whilst making your gameplay totally worthless until you leave. Then we can get some other mugs in and take their money because they think we're "listening" to players.

  5. #105

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    Can i trade my scouts in for archers? - There is virtually no chance of being detected. My 300k scouts, Are Totally useless. I hope this is fixed overnight with no warning, so i can catch some of these nubs obviously scouting me checking out my level 10 barracks.

    Refund for my mich scripts pls? knowing how much money these guys would be turning over and with the availability of cheap high profile lawyers/attorneys from this recession .. they probably have an iron clad contract. With no way of getting your funds back, No matter what they do to the game, You just have to take it. I may have to get rid of eight out of nine of my towns, just to keep the one if spent mich scripts in.

    NOT HAPPY!

  6. #106

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    Hopefully this is just a flaw in the patch and the devs have to much pride to admit responsibility before they can fix it. Maybe a wrong 0 or 1 implemented somewhere..? Perhaps they need to fix the honor feed system with scouts. Because.. sending two waves of 100k scouts to take out someones 120k scouts will leave you with 500k less honor. And a happy defender.

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnseeker View Post
    The realism angle doesn't really apply. In fact, this change makes scouts much more realistic than they have been in the past. Consider that scouts would ride ahead and check things out ahead of an army. Sometimes they would be caught and killed, but generally they would be able to carry out their mission.

    That said, there are some good reasons for making the scouting routine simpler and making defending scouts have a 100% chance to defend against scouting missions if the gates are open.

    The reason I renamed this topic and stickied it was to encourage discussion, and not have players simply sit and rant. I am open to suggestions and discussion and want to bring your ideas to the devs. Screaming does not help.
    There is a lot of discussion going on but you're also ignoring a lot of this so called "screaming"

    As it is now, there's no defense from being scouted. There's nothing I can do as a player to protect myself. I don't even know for sure when people scout me, I have to guess.

    Who cares about realism? The scouting aspect of the game was fun before. We were used to the old way of scouting. We've been doing it for months now. Then one day the devs decide to change the entire process without even asking the players what they want... Do you see the problem here? Or do you consider this screaming?

    We need a way to defend against people scouting us or we need to know every time they successfully scout us so we can prepare for the attack. Level 10 informatics and Level 10 beacon tower are not worth the resources now since they do NOTHING to defend against scouts. As I said I have a level 10 beacon tower and level 10 informatics and some scrub with level 9 of informatics and a level 7 beacon tower has been scouting me and attacking when I move my archers out of my main city... I KNOW he is scouting me because every time I move the archers to my other city, he attacks. When I move them back he recalls.

    Are you not seeing the problem with this?

    /edit/ brain no worky this early in the morning... fixed mistakes
    Last edited by NemoInTheWoods; 06-26-2009 at 06:33 AM.

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnseeker View Post
    Can you explain how this change "ruins" the game? I'm interested in feedback, because I'm not convinced this change is for the best either and I certainly would like to hear sound reasons for why it is so disastrous.
    Here's a reason Dawnseeker; we all play a game that has certain rules, as we progress as players we learn certain aspects of playing the game. Then, overnight, without a word, someone changes the rules. This is why these kind of things "ruin" the game. I have 8 cities with xxk scouts in each, now, suddenly, and without warning, hundreds of thousands of my troops have just been rendered pointless.

    Why don't you people try fixing the things that are broken, like the random downtimes that always are much longer than 15 minutes, or the incredible lag that has been present from day 1 of this game? Why were the scouts "fixed" in the first place? Please point me to the countless threads where the PLAYERS were complaining about the previous scouting system, surely there must be loads to prompt this "fix".

    The Devs "ruin" a game by continually changing its mechanics, whilst not addressing the real issues.

    Of course this thread will be long forgotten by next week when a new "fix" is brought into effect.

  9. #109

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    battle6.evony.com/default.html?logfile/6f/a3/0d/1a/6fa30d1a8c7953d16e8f7b07c741d142.xml

    Hopefully this works. Level 8 Informatics, level 6 beacon tower vs level 10 beacon tower, informatics level unknown.

    battle6.evony.com/default.html?logfile/98/34/39/d3/983439d3d48e5538651e0c888f16cdb6.xml

    Only difference this time is instead of level 6 beacon tower, I've scouted from a city with a level 7 beacon tower...

    So the system is working. Kind of... Though perhaps not in the way it was intended/some players would like it to.

  10. #110

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    Let's consider the fact that Dawnseeker apparently has only a cursory understanding of real world scouting.
    1. Riding ahead and survivng to return and report is not necessarily "successful". In the US Civil War, a major battle (Gettysberg) had one side almost totally without scouts at the beginning of the battle [Jeb Stuart had ridden off on his own and returned too late to warn Gen. Robert E. Lee of the numbers and disposition of troops he faced. Definitely a case of too little too late.]).
    2. 100% accurate reports are rarely possible in the real world.
    3. Infomatics and beacon level have now been rendered moot in that they are equally effective regardless of the number of scouts sent/used in counter-surveillance. I don't think the medieval era armies had ground-tracking radar consequently they relied on numerous scouts to overcome the lack or inaccuracy of information returned by sending out insufficient scouts.
    4. If the randomness factor of being detected is too small, then what others have complained about is the result - an apparent and quite obvious advantage is given one side (too much information) while taking away a real bit of information when counter-intelligence is considerd on the defender's side (investing in lots of scouts to DETECT and DISCOURAGE scouting by attackers. I'm not saying that we should eliminate the possibility for a single survivor to return with information - however, the defender SHOULD be able to detect being scouted if he has made the investment in counter-surveillance, a perfect example of why strategy choice must ALWAYS BE A PLAYER'S OPTION, not something dictated by the dev's/coders.

    So, there, Dawnseeker, some non-rant reasoning on why the implementation and your apparent defense of it doesn't hold up to logic from my perspective (at least).
    Last edited by aria; 06-26-2009 at 12:18 PM.

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