View Poll Results: Do you think that the game is broken, due to defenders bonus?

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  • Yes, defenders have all the advantage.

    63 55.75%
  • No, the game is ok like this.

    50 44.25%
Results 1 to 10 of 46

Thread: Do you think the game is broken, due to defenders bonus?

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  1. #1

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    All it takes is some thinking, and you can get into someones city easily. Ill explain.
    There are 5 fortifications, each provided with a simple description of mechanics:
    Trap - This is triggered by an infantry unit. It will start the fight at 5000 range.
    Abatis -This is triggered by a horse unit. If a horse unit is sent in the march, it will start the fight at 5000 range.
    Archer Tower - This only has 1300 range, and start the battle as soon as an enemy comes in range.
    Rolling Log - Same as AT, but it expends.
    Defensive Trebuchet -The "Seige Trap", if you will.

    Ok. Now beginning the battle at a long range is bad, right? So what do we do? Take out the defensive fortifications. Here is how this can be achieved:
    Send a wave of warriors to remove the Defensive Trebuchet. Ok, thats easy. Take out the traps as well, and Rolling Logs if you can.
    Now, we need to remove those darn Archer Towers. How? Well theres a few ways. Send mass archers or ballista. They will die, so you need to do a few calculations to figure out how many you need to send, which i wont be explaining here. They will defeat the Archer Towers, however die from their Archers.
    Next, Their Abatis and defensive troops remain. Send in Cavalry to remove the Abatis. Oh my gosh, they have no defensive fortifications left!
    Now send in a large wave of Archers to take out their fodder and junk, assuming they have some.
    Now what should remain is Archers. A lot of them. Send a huge wave of Cataphract, or multiple waves of 'max' Archers.

    Note: When no defensive fortifications are present, the battle will begin once the attacker has attacked. There could be a single Warrior 11 range away from a defending Archer. The Archer will not attack until the Warrior initiates the fight.

    Cataphract do wonders against Archers. Especially Archers in large numbers, where a wave of 90k would only take out a handful. If you sent 90k Cataphract to an enemy whos defensive fortifications have been killed, you could kill over 500k defending Archers, depending of course on Hero and research.

    And please dont rainbow the Cataphract... Rainbowing can sometimes be one of the dumbest things a player can do. What happens when you rainbow a unit with greater range with it? (Archer, Cavalry, Ballista, Catapult) You lose. Why? Because the battle has been initialized by that longest-ranged unit, causing the enemy to shoot you before your Cataphracts get first hit.

    If you rainbow 1 Archer with 89999 Cataphract, well you could win, but it depends on the number of enemy Archers. Your Archer will attack first, killing nobody, then their Archers kill you and you cry to the forums just to get told that Cataphract suck. True story.
    Last edited by javasirc; 07-03-2009 at 12:21 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Default

    Meanwhile as you're doing all that. The defender has time to get uber reinforced. Then you're back at square one after expending your whole army. You're at a stalemate, and now the defender has time to build up his fortifications again.

    The simple fact that multiple attackers cannot merge their armies and defenders can, gives a severe advantage to the defender.

    "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind" ~Einstein
    "lol well wine usually helps boost the wood"~LG
    "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather."~Bill Hicks

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by javasirc View Post
    All it takes is some thinking, and you can get into someones city easily. Ill explain.
    There are 5 fortifications, each provided with a simple description of mechanics:
    Trap - This is triggered by an infantry unit. It will start the fight at 5000 range.
    Abatis -This is triggered by a horse unit. If a horse unit is sent in the march, it will start the fight at 5000 range.
    Archer Tower - This only has 1300 range, and start the battle as soon as an enemy comes in range.
    Rolling Log - Same as AT, but it expends.
    Defensive Trebuchet -The "Seige Trap", if you will.

    Ok. Now beginning the battle at a long range is bad, right? So what do we do? Take out the defensive fortifications. Here is how this can be achieved:
    Send a wave of warriors to remove the Defensive Trebuchet. Ok, thats easy. Take out the traps as well, and Rolling Logs if you can.
    Now, we need to remove those darn Archer Towers. How? Well theres a few ways. Send mass archers or ballista. They will die, so you need to do a few calculations to figure out how many you need to send, which i wont be explaining here. They will defeat the Archer Towers, however die from their Archers.
    Next, Their Abatis and defensive troops remain. Send in Cavalry to remove the Abatis. Oh my gosh, they have no defensive fortifications left!
    Now send in a large wave of Archers to take out their fodder and junk, assuming they have some.
    Now what should remain is Archers. A lot of them. Send a huge wave of Cataphract, or multiple waves of 'max' Archers.

    Note: When no defensive fortifications are present, the battle will begin once the attacker has attacked. There could be a single Warrior 11 range away from a defending Archer. The Archer will not attack until the Warrior initiates the fight.

    Cataphract do wonders against Archers. Especially Archers in large numbers, where a wave of 90k would only take out a handful. If you sent 90k Cataphract to an enemy whos defensive fortifications have been killed, you could kill over 500k defending Archers, depending of course on Hero and research.

    And please dont rainbow the Cataphract... Rainbowing can sometimes be one of the dumbest things a player can do. What happens when you rainbow a unit with greater range with it? (Archer, Cavalry, Ballista, Catapult) You lose. Why? Because the battle has been initialized by that longest-ranged unit, causing the enemy to shoot you before your Cataphracts get first hit.

    If you rainbow 1 Archer with 89999 Cataphract, well you could win, but it depends on the number of enemy Archers. Your Archer will attack first, killing nobody, then their Archers kill you and you cry to the forums just to get told that Cataphract suck. True story.
    wtf are you talking about? Someone already posted a battle report of 100k cataphract killing 0 archers. That's about 500k different than what you claim. The fortifications have little if anything to do with defenses. It's almost wholly the defending archers/ballistas/catapults that do the damage as they also get the wall range bonus.

    http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=22467 is the original thread though the battle reports dont work anymore. You'll just have to infer from the responses now

    Also a wave of ballis or catapults or mass archers or anything against a well defended high level wall town wont kill a single AT.
    Last edited by pokey; 07-03-2009 at 12:43 AM.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pokey View Post
    wtf are you talking about? Someone already posted a battle report of 100k cataphract killing 0 archers. That's about 500k different than what you claim. The fortifications have little if anything to do with defenses. It's almost wholly the defending archers/ballistas/catapults that do the damage as they also get the wall range bonus.

    http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=22467 is the original thread though the battle reports dont work anymore. You'll just have to infer from the responses now

    Also a wave of ballis or catapults or mass archers or anything against a well defended high level wall town wont kill a single AT.
    They state that there are pikemen/swordsmen in there. Of course they will cause the cataphract to not attack the archers. This is where the wave of archers come in. They deal with the pikemen, and all that other stuff. Then you can send cataphract. It may not even have to be archers, other units may work as well.

    And to the part about fortifications having nothing to do with defenses? Your so wrong. One AT or one Trap can make all the difference. That single Trap will start the battle at 5000 range, causing the defending archers to have some free rounds to attack the attacker before they get close enough. Fortifications make all the difference.
    Last edited by javasirc; 07-03-2009 at 12:54 AM.

  5. #5

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by javasirc View Post
    All it takes is some thinking, and you can get into someones city easily. Ill explain.
    There are 5 fortifications, each provided with a simple description of mechanics:
    Trap - This is triggered by an infantry unit. It will start the fight at 5000 range.
    Abatis -This is triggered by a horse unit. If a horse unit is sent in the march, it will start the fight at 5000 range.
    Archer Tower - This only has 1300 range, and start the battle as soon as an enemy comes in range.
    Rolling Log - Same as AT, but it expends.
    Defensive Trebuchet -The "Seige Trap", if you will.

    Ok. Now beginning the battle at a long range is bad, right? So what do we do? Take out the defensive fortifications. Here is how this can be achieved:
    Send a wave of warriors to remove the Defensive Trebuchet. Ok, thats easy. Take out the traps as well, and Rolling Logs if you can.
    Now, we need to remove those darn Archer Towers. How? Well theres a few ways. Send mass archers or ballista. They will die, so you need to do a few calculations to figure out how many you need to send, which i wont be explaining here. They will defeat the Archer Towers, however die from their Archers.
    Next, Their Abatis and defensive troops remain. Send in Cavalry to remove the Abatis. Oh my gosh, they have no defensive fortifications left!
    Now send in a large wave of Archers to take out their fodder and junk, assuming they have some.
    Now what should remain is Archers. A lot of them. Send a huge wave of Cataphract, or multiple waves of 'max' Archers.

    Note: When no defensive fortifications are present, the battle will begin once the attacker has attacked. There could be a single Warrior 11 range away from a defending Archer. The Archer will not attack until the Warrior initiates the fight.

    Cataphract do wonders against Archers. Especially Archers in large numbers, where a wave of 90k would only take out a handful. If you sent 90k Cataphract to an enemy whos defensive fortifications have been killed, you could kill over 500k defending Archers, depending of course on Hero and research.

    And please dont rainbow the Cataphract... Rainbowing can sometimes be one of the dumbest things a player can do. What happens when you rainbow a unit with greater range with it? (Archer, Cavalry, Ballista, Catapult) You lose. Why? Because the battle has been initialized by that longest-ranged unit, causing the enemy to shoot you before your Cataphracts get first hit.

    If you rainbow 1 Archer with 89999 Cataphract, well you could win, but it depends on the number of enemy Archers. Your Archer will attack first, killing nobody, then their Archers kill you and you cry to the forums just to get told that Cataphract suck. True story.
    this post is a complete waste of time, of word, of labor that make you read the whole thing.
    I am a smacker. CPO rule


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    Bonnie Scotland
    Posts
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    Default

    It's like real life. Defendin' is always easier than attackin'.
    Defenders always have more advantages.
    Warlords can only ever send so many troops at once. Defenders can have their entire force and more sit in one spot and defend.
    Attackers don't get protective walls and traps; defenders do (moat around the castle, anyone?)
    Defenders get the same access to seige weaponry that attacks do, no reason not to.

    How to attackers win then? Strategy. It's always it. Defenders need the sheer force ll pulled into one area. Attackers need the strategy because they siply can't pull the force together the same. Alliances are a huge thing in this game; use them to your advantage, don't jus' go on a one man conquest.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Escalante View Post
    Do you realize all you did was explain why the game is so unbalanced? Why on earth should a player march a few hundred thousand troops to their death, knowingly, to have a chance to conquer a city? Do you know anything about realistic medieval warfare? It wasn't a case of a few armies gathering for some suicidal get-togethers so that *maybe* one army can get lucky and and win a battle if that city doesn't get reinforced by the opponents allies.

    Your defense of the gameplay simply fails.
    not only that, but if the following happens at any point in time you atuo-lose

    "guys I'm getting spammed, can I get reinforced at x,x?

    500k warriors and 500k archers incoming to player's embassy

    The end.

  8. #8
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    Burgundy, WN1
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
    not only that, but if the following happens at any point in time you atuo-lose

    "guys I'm getting spammed, can I get reinforced at x,x?

    500k warriors and 500k archers incoming to player's embassy

    The end.
    This is the practical joke in this game. I move 13miles in about 26 minutes minutes with archers. The target gets reinforced from 50 miles in lesser time [read: Relief station] mega lol.. can't be more funnier than this.

    The game mechanics teaches you only one simple thing - How to 'turtle' effectively with little or no effort!

    There is already a week's time of noob protection before which a player plans to continue playing or leave the game.

  9. #9

    Default

    Defense might be over power in a battle but you people miss the forest and only see the tree.
    Why would you do a battle? to win a war... so your the offender and in your fist you keep the fate of the defense and maybe the war, chose your battles and just strike fear in your enemy. Envony is maybe the most realistic game of this kind i ever seen by the simple fact the defense as in real life can be untouchable some times so a smart general admits this and recalls his troops.
    History is full of example of wars that finish with one battle well prepared by the winners but in the same time is full of example of wars that were won by economic power to sustain a long time.
    So don't search just for a blitzkrieg be ready for all situation and acct intelligent, just screaming attack never got any one to far...
    As in terms of just the simple battle, well things are complex in a good way, 1 pike can change the wind in favor of defense but in the same time 1 wave of 10k archers can also. So in my opinion a battle is won long before you press deploy troops, is won with a pen and a paper by a wise general.

    But I do have to admit honor system how it is now is just a b..s.., it dosnt show a strong, intelligent attacker it shows who is the most determine bully around and who destroys random defenses over and over again.
    Last edited by Oldwind; 07-18-2009 at 04:22 PM.

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