Minimum wage must be abolished.

[Darwin]

By the way, all the attacks against Gloria for a perfectly well reasoned remark are a perfect example of Marxist/Leninist Theory. Don't address the argument in any constructive way, merely attack the person attempting honest and intelligent debate. If you demonize the messenger you don't have to address the message!

Anyone else hear the chorus of sheeps' bleating? I sure do.
"Four legs good, two legs better!"
"Four legs good, two legs better!"
"Four legs good, two legs better!"
"Four legs good, two legs better!"

[cullain]

Well, I have to go with Gloria on this one.
From my own experience "out there" in the real business world, the only people affected by minimum wage are kids taking doing summer jobs.

You take, like a waitress. A lot of them work for less than minimum wage, depending on tips to boost their income, and frankly, don't report it.

The demand for skilled workers of any type goes far beyond minimum wage.

[Just Jurgen]

I think your either lacking common sense or trusting people too much. Minimum wage doesnt exist to protect an economy or a business, it exists to protect the employeees first and last.

Bare in mind that even in what you would call a developed country like UK, USA, Canada, minimum wage is being broke illegally many time because people arent able to get work elsewhere.

Imagine if this was legal? For Skilled labour this isnt much of an issue as such, but what about Unskilled labour?

[cullain]

JJ
Unskilled labor is outflanked by guess who....illegal immigrants! It's done every day, all the time.

Hell, Madame Speaker-of-the-House, Queen Pelosi, even had her own illegal housekeeper!

[Just Jurgen]

JJ
Unskilled labor is outflanked by guess who....illegal immigrants! It's done every day, all the time.

Hell, Madame Speaker-of-the-House, Queen Pelosi, even had her own illegal housekeeper!

Thats not true by far, Unskilled labour goes beyond working at a car wash, street cleaners

Unskilled labour includes almost every field of work that doesnt require a degree or highier education.

Target employees, shopping malls, Store Clerks, Shop assistants, Waiters you name it. These are all unskilled jobs relatively speaking in terms of an educational system.
Immagrant workers are people just like everyone, doing both unskilled and skilled labour.

Im an Immagrant in Britain,I work as a Video Editor, i'd go crazy if i couldnt even get 10 dollars an hour!


Although i will say one thing, Immagrant workers have no problem doing jobs locals dont do, and have little complain. I cant speak for america but in Britian, No1 wants to Clean Streets & Schools, Work in a Foodstore, Recycle Center, these are all valid jobs which require filling and UK citizens dont want to do them, so who should?

In January 2009, on ONE DAY, there was a random Freeze Storm in London where the street were covered up with over 10inches of snow... On that day, London employment as a whole Lost 120Million, Heres some fun statistics for you... About that day.

over 85% of British Citizens DID NOT go to work that day
over 95% of Foreign and Immagrant worers DID go to work that day

www.statistics.gov.uk

Just a thought...

[cullain]

Well JJ, there is no quick-and-easy answer to that.

But I can remember in my own past, when there was no work for me, and I'm not 'unskilled', I did a lot of jobs to put food on the table, feed my family, and did them without complaining.

It depends on YOUR attitude. I dug ditches in the middle of winter and was glad of it! Some others might have felt themselves above doing menial labor, but I was glad my folks didn't go hungry that week.

And another part of the formula is, the employers' costs. If he has to pay more than he can afford to, he will eliminate the job. So what do you do then?

I'd rather make $4 an hour than $0 an hour.

[kamikazewave]

Alright, I'm going to go through this again, since no one seems to be reading my posts.

Let's suppose a company needs a certain order filled. By order we can mean work etc. Order is a variable. Say the order is 10x. X can be anything.

It can get a bunch of desperate people for a dollar each to fill it. Each person can fill 1x. Thus, 10 people fill 10x for 10 bucks.

Now, with minimum wage, it must pay 5 bucks (bucks here don't mean dollars, just take it to mean a hypothetical currency). It will now pay 50 bucks for the same job to be done. Or, it could hire 2 people for 5 bucks each, and an initial cost of 5 more for training, to increase productivity to fulfill the 10x order.

So now, where your "nation" (let's take it to mean a set of these 10 people and the company) has filled its entire work order, and still has 8 people left, which can be used to further productivity on some other work order.

Of course, this assumes that a demand for the 8 workers will be found etc.

But still, what happens is your nation increases its productivity.

Now imagine that theres a neighboring country where workers will work for half a buck an hour. In the first case, there would be no incentive for the company to either stay in your nation or to import workers. But if you have minimum wage, and enforce it, not only will there be no incentive to import workers, there will be less incentive to move, as the large numbers of untrained workers will be able to produce much less product than the trained workers your nation has converted to.

Now this is a gross simplification, and only argues against one of the reasons put up here against the minimum wage, but I'm hoping this will prevent similar posts from happening. I've seen way too many posts that argue against the minimum wage AFTER I had posted reasons why a certain argument didn't work without even replying to the points I made, as if the more people who said something without evidence would create evidence out of nowhere.

[Jato310]

And yet again you miss the main point, in the country next door, the one that will work or ? a buck a day, the children that are not working in the factories are starving in the streets, those who are not lucky enough to have wealthy parents that is, so provided we do not want children starving in our streets, minimum wage nessesary.

[kamikazewave]

And once again, you fail reading comprehension. Read it again and tell me which side I'm arguing for.

[cullain]

LOL
You're arguing for it, Kami.