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Thread: Key Issues on Combat Mechanics~

  1. #221
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    If they move like that, it will totally quash our theory of how the cav can get to point zero in time to attack the archers.
    The defendin' cav will still have move out far enough to block the attackin' cav and the archers won't get touched.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satan
    I said before I need to be in the top 100 players or else I won't be able to defend myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ken Deathmarr View Post
    You know, I don't understand your post sometimes ok? So I take it as a mean threat.

  2. #222

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    Also, correct me if im wrong, but if units moved simultaneously then scout bombing Would Not Work At All. But we know for a fact that it Does. The fact that scout bombing works in the least lends credence to the theory that the faster unit attacks first. You can also see this in Valley combat where cavalry quickly stomp archers first.

  3. #223

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    Scout bombing work because the scouts have the speed to attack any defending unit.

    I'll have to do more math *ugh* regarding cavalry assaults to determine the extent as to how they move against certain defensive troops. I have to make some battle reports as well, both against defenders with ballistae and without.

  4. #224
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    If the battle starts at 2,4k range (give or take) then the scouts can reach point zero in one turn and select the archers.
    But if they move on a ratio basis as you suggest, then the ponies would still have a chance to move.
    Scouts only have a range of 20. If the enemy unit moves at all, they'll lock down the scouts before they can get close enough to teh archers. Even if you debate the math on this one, jus' look at when the range is at 5k; scouts still reach the archers; the only way they can do that is if no other unit has moved at all. They don't have enough range to let them reach past moved units.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satan
    I said before I need to be in the top 100 players or else I won't be able to defend myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ken Deathmarr View Post
    You know, I don't understand your post sometimes ok? So I take it as a mean threat.

  5. #225

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    There goes one theory down the drain. Still, we do not have an explanation as to the cavalry face the layers instead of heading towards the archers in a defense with ballistae when clearly, they have the speed to jump towards the archers in two turns.

    I really wanna find out how these horse attacks work since I'll be using them as my primary weapons. xp

  6. #226
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    Ponies on defence.
    Range is set at 2,4k.
    First round the ponies would move to range 1,5k. That's within defendin' archer range. They won't move and stand and shoot. The layers would then move foward.
    Second round the layers are in front of the archers, so the ponies haveto go through them.
    The only reason this situtaion can work at all is becasue the scoutbomb locks the defence down at point zero, but that can't happen in defence since scouts don't move.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satan
    I said before I need to be in the top 100 players or else I won't be able to defend myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ken Deathmarr View Post
    You know, I don't understand your post sometimes ok? So I take it as a mean threat.

  7. #227

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    Regarding scout bomb, has anyone thought that the defending troop don't actually come out to meet the scouts, being that they are scouts? Since defending scouts don't defend against scout bomb, possibly defending troop aren't triggered in to moving against the scouts as well?

  8. #228

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    So are the main wildcards to our little theory here the fact that it doesnt work when ballistas are involved, and when the enemy also has cavalry with equal HBR levels?

    Even with ballistas huge range, cav can still close that distance in 2 rounds, so feasibly the scout/cav bomb should work. In two rounds, cav can cover 3000 units of range, and then they have a reach of 100 themselves, so theres no reason the range of a ballista would prevent them from hitting unless theres something special about the ballista themselves that were missing. In any case, the only reason this Whole Thing even works is thx to the scouts. If they dont reach the target, its game over. Only way I could really see that happening is if for some odd reason ballista fire at the approaching scouts and kill them all; which wouldnt make sense, scouts are far faster. BUT, if the result is also the same with catapults, maybe siege engines operate a little out of the normal scheme of things? One thing I noticed on both of alsal's failed attacks was that the number of defending ballista could have killed his scout layer easily.

    The fastest unit moves first, we know this. But the whole issue with opposing cav makes me wonder if that, perhaps when dealing with two units of the same speed, the defender moves first, or as you said, the two equal speed units move at the same time? Otherwise, how else could they block them? Since we kinda debunked the 'moving at the same time' thing.

    Really, id love to do some testing myself, but i dont have the necessary techs(two accounts, but both hbr9 FTM), nor the troops to spare at my particular stage in the game. =(
    Last edited by lordgarzhad; 10-28-2009 at 01:43 AM.

  9. #229
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    The only report we have of b'listers is the one supplied a few pages back, but we don't know the tech levels of that. For all we know the tech levels were too low and the b'listers increased the range sufficiently to knock this effect out of play.
    I can't consider reports as admissable evidence unless we have all the facts, and tech levels play a serious role here.

    As for equal HBR enemy levels it would make sense...if two units have the same speed, they move at the same time, regardless of offence/defence. Thusly, ponies on both sides would move at the same time and knock this out of play again.
    The other wildcard is why 'phracts are knockin' this out of play as well, considerin' they have far lower speed than ponies. The only theory we have to explain that was debunked by the fact that scoutbombs can work, so we're back to square one on why I can't replicate this effect between my/my gf's account.

    @DanM: they do defend against scouts. They'll attack any viable unit within range, even transporters. There are reports of transporters gettin' killed off en masse in various raam attacks. There are also reports of failed scoutbombs where the scouts got killed early.
    And even if they didn't defend against the scoutbombs and ignored them, then they'd still move forward and prevent this ponybomb effect from happenin'.
    Last edited by Darkbrady; 10-28-2009 at 02:21 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satan
    I said before I need to be in the top 100 players or else I won't be able to defend myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ken Deathmarr View Post
    You know, I don't understand your post sometimes ok? So I take it as a mean threat.

  10. #230

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbrady View Post
    HB Units~
    HB units are fast, strong units that are especially talented at killin' off their non-HB counterparts. They are notably more expensive and slow to train, but are often enough worth it if one can afford the increase in costs.


    Pony~
    Life: 500
    Population: 3
    Attack: 250
    Defence: 180
    Load: 100
    Upkeep: 18
    Speed: 1000
    Range: 100


    Ponies are the most effective counter-unit to archers, as well as bein' the best loyalty spammers now that scouts got their wall damage nerfed. They train at a decent speed and don't require too much, but are solid units that move quickly and are an easy cure to all your archer-flavoured problems.
    However! They act as a potential bomb unit. Misuse of them winds up w/ them bein' very expensive bombs and denyin' them livin' up to their full potential. Despite their life and defence, they're somewhat fragile because of their speed; they move forward fast each round, well ahead of the rest of your army and charge headlong into all enemy rainbows; they also become the first viable target or enemy archers, so find themselves gettin' off'd pretty fast.
    Also because of their speed, rainbowin' them is hard to do; only scouts can be their rainbow; but thas not always bad. Scouts move so much faster that they take all the threat the ponies would have before their more expensive horsebacked counterparts come in range. This works well as a protection method and mid-battle bomb tactic.
    So by now, you've got glass cannon ponies that will potentially fly straight into all dangers at no thought for themselves and get themselves maimed before their task is complete. But on the other hand you have a ragin' mule that kills rainbows w/ haste and charges at enemy archers and chews through them at a ratio of 1:5. By the time the rainbows are out of the way, ponies can waltz right up to archers and ATs and flatten them; expect 100k ponies to be able to maul 500k archers. When numbers start rollin' out like that, you can start believin' in them as a solid counter unit.

    Also, note that ponies are a great assault unit, but when it comes to defendin' it's a different story. Havin' your range set to 5k will wind up sendin' your ponies on an unneccesary trek to attack the offender, and have to go through rainbows and get shot down by arrows (bein' the first unit the offendin' archers will be in range of) so will actually backfire and lead to your ponies deaths.
    Ponies can defend, but it requires archer backup, heavy scout numbers and the removal of traps that set the range to 5k; that way you can get in on the game easrly, hard and fast w/o goin' out of range of your own archers. Ofc, this will also give the offender the advantage of no traps/abati to worry about.
    Ideally, keep ponies for your attacks and less of a defensive unit.


    'Phract~
    Life: 1000
    Population: 6
    Attack: 350
    Defence: 350
    Load: 80
    Upkeep: 35
    Speed: 750
    Range: 80


    What can I say? Almost exactly the same as regular ponies, but slower and scarier. They can be rainbowed by scouts and ponies, addin' extra protection while still movin' at a decent pace towards the enemy; they have far fewer losses than regular ponies and even reduce their losses. Their extra attack chews through enemy rainbows like nothin' and defence and life increases protect them solidly. By the time they get to archers you're lookin' at a terrifyin' ratio of around 1:8. 100k 'phracts will solve nigh all archer problems when marched correctly.
    Since they're easier to protect, harder to kill and far more capable of slaughter than any other non-seige unit it seems like a sweet deal, but consider the costs and time to train. They become ridiculously expensive in small numbers; when you send 100k 'phracts to murder a million archers, jus' consider that they can have those archers replaced fast and reinforced w/ more archers quicker than you'll be able to retrain any lost 'phracts. It's a monster task, but often worth the punishment on your time.

    Pay attention to how important it is to pre-clear layers away and how many unneeded casualties are taken due to remainin' defencive layers. These big boys may be powerful, but it's essential that they have the enemy layers cleaned as much as possible before they go marchin' in, although you shold also be able to see the sheer, relentless power these beasts have behind them.
    Large Scale 'Phractsmack-Victory
    Large Scale 'Phractsmack-Victory
    Large Scale 'Phractsmack-Victory
    Large Scale 'Phractsmack-Victory


    Transporter~
    Life: 700
    Population: 4
    Attack: 10
    Defence: 60
    Load: 5000
    Upkeep: 10
    Speed: 150
    Range: 10


    A safe transportation device. Relatively cheap and quick to train they act as your courier for goods; however have no effect on battle. Whereas every other unit moves forward each round, ever more into enemy arrow range, transporters stay behind in safety till the end and only get killed when your army loses.
    Sayin' that, transporters can be killed in a victorious battle. Have a looky at this:
    50k Raams attack ATs
    The rainbow got wiped out, doin' the job in protectin' the raams while they slowly inch forward, but the interestin' thing is that the transporters started takin' hits w/o any raams bein' killed.
    Transporters do indeed move slowly, and will even pass the attackin' force. Where seige units will stop as soon as they're in range of walls/defences, the transporters will continue forward, actin' as a painfully expensive rainbow for the raams to continue their attack untouched for longer.
    This is a rare situation, becasue typically the defendin' units will be busy attackin' other units and otherwise keepin' their focus on the seige before the transporters.
    I honestly don't have a solid explanation for this; if anyone does, feel free to let me know and I'll include it.
    hi dark,
    nice thread there...
    allow me to take on the ram report;
    the reason why i think the transporters got hit and no rams is because of the following;
    -the rams were being hit - no doubt -but because of their extreme long life they took considerable hits but survived.
    -because of the fact that rams got busy stopping and attacking AT's once they came within their range, the transporters overtook them and came in the range of the AT's...thus taking hits (they also have very less life 700 vs 5000). The assumption here is that, by the time the transporters came in range of AT's there were still a number of AT's left in-destructed and were shooting - and that can be explained by the poor rainbowing and slow attacking of the rams.

    -Thanks,
    Matt
    Server 51, FearMist alliance
    Last edited by mat321; 10-28-2009 at 04:53 AM.

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