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Thread: Key Issues on Combat Mechanics~

  1. #401

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birtles View Post
    I was answering som's question about priorities. I meant to post your pic as proof but not the text, but alas, my intentions got inverted.
    Besides I'm not sure what your question is, you've already stated that combat begins at base range. Are you arguing with yourself now?
    Yes, I'm still trying to convince myself that's the case by proving everything else wrong :P
    I wished I know the tech level of the one who posted that log. Would really calm down the argument in my head -_-.

  2. #402

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    Well to calm the argument, it is base range... or rather base range plus!
    Tivie came up with the theory that combat starts an extra 200 yards further out, this seems to bear-up in all situations even in the Exercise.

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birtles View Post
    Well to calm the argument, it is base range... or rather base range plus!
    Tivie came up with the theory that combat starts an extra 200 yards farther out, this seems to bear-up in all situations even in the Exercise.
    Aye. I'm yet to ever see any evidence that this theory is wrong. In fact, the more we look at it, the more it seems to hold true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satan
    I said before I need to be in the top 100 players or else I won't be able to defend myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ken Deathmarr View Post
    You know, I don't understand your post sometimes ok? So I take it as a mean threat.

  4. #404

    Default At range

    So is max AT range = 2535 with arch10 and eng10?
    thx

  5. #405

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbrady View Post
    Aye. I'm yet to ever see any evidence that this theory is wrong. In fact, the more we look at it, the more it seems to hold true.
    I'm confused on this one.
    Does this theory say that all battles will start at 200 more than what you would think.
    So with traps and abatis present, battle would begin at 5200 rather than 5000?

  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Efward View Post
    So is max AT range = 2535 with arch10 and eng10?
    thx
    Correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Efward View Post
    I'm confused on this one.
    Does this theory say that all battles will start at 200 more than what you would think.
    So with traps and abatis present, battle would begin at 5200 rather than 5000?
    Correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satan
    I said before I need to be in the top 100 players or else I won't be able to defend myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ken Deathmarr View Post
    You know, I don't understand your post sometimes ok? So I take it as a mean threat.

  7. #407

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    You know, that "+200 range" theory is sounding better and better the more I look at it.
    Here are a couple of toying around I did today:

    Valley10:


    So the range was set at 1600 (Bal + 200). That meant the Cavs couldn't reach Archers in 1 turn so all of the layers worked while the other side got pin-cushioned.

    Scout report 1: 30s before 1000 Cav + 1 Archer hit


    Scout report 2: after I sent 1000 Cav + 1 Archer


    I used Scout reports as proof because obviously, I didn't get a report b/c of the 10% rule. However, you can easily see that I did damage to Pikes even though the Cav is the fastest unit in the field. So that meant the initial combat range is > 1450 (I had HBR9; this is important because Cavs have a range of 100). Since highest range in the field is Bal (1400), something else must've increased it to cause the Cavs to not reach Archers in R1.
    So again, the combat range must've been 1600 (Bal + 200).

    This would explain the earlier report I linked with massive Cav lost and the Screens you have in your "Rainbow" section Darkbrady, namely this one:



    So the main reason the Cavs lost was the fact that Catapult was the range setter and if you add 200 to its range, the Cavs would have no chance in hell to reach the Archers before having to fight the layers. Without the defending Bal/Pult, the Cavs would've done massively better damage.

    Oh, and random sidenote: you see the Warriors dying first before the Swords behavior here also, just like your "Compact Defense." So something else is up in the interaction b/w Horses and Warriors.
    Last edited by Neokarasu; 11-25-2009 at 07:00 PM.

  8. #408

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    Further proof (don't really have a screenie but you can easily test it) of "+200 range theory":

    I have HBR 9. I attacked a city with Archers + Ballista with 100 Cavs.
    1450 movement + 100 range = 1550 < 1600
    I scouted him 5s before and 5s after the hit. He suffered 0 casualty.

    I asked someone else to hit him. She has HBR10 and sent 100 Cavs vs the same city.
    1500 movement + 100 range = 1600 (ding!)
    I scouted 5s before and 5s after the hit. He suffered some Archer casualty (the number is irrelevant, just the fact that the Cavs actually hit).

    So the range has to be somewhere between 1550 and 1600 if my attack whiffed and her attack hit. So I'm liking this +200 starting range theory.

  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birtles View Post
    Melee troops will go for the strongest enemy. Strength seems to be arbitrary, definitely not resource based. Hint: Look at how npc archers are protected in valleys.
    I am trying to get some determination in target priorities.
    "resource based" concept looks strange for me, but I'm ready to accept it.
    Here is my current understanding:
    1. Ranged unit rules.
    Ranged units (AT included) prefer ranged ones.
    Among these ranged units the unit having the biggest range is chosen.
    If there are no ranged units in range then follow melee unit rules.
    2. Melee unit rules.
    The unit with most overall value is chosen.
    Overall_value=Unit_amount*Unit_value
    Unit value is a summary of all resources needed for production.

    What is your concept? "not resource based" -- I got it. What is based on then?
    Are you saying it is random (arbitrary)? I doubt it as it looks even stranger that "resource based".
    Could you please clarify it?

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neokarasu View Post


    So the main reason the Cavs lost was the fact that Catapult was the range setter and if you add 200 to its range, the Cavs would have no chance in hell to reach the Archers before having to fight the layers. Without the defending Bal/Pult, the Cavs would've done massively better damage.

    Oh, and random sidenote: you see the Warriors dying first before the Swords behavior here also, just like your "Compact Defense." So something else is up in the interaction b/w Horses and Warriors.

    As I understand the battle begins from att.cavalry jump from position 1700 (Cata 1500+200) to 250=1700-1450 and so it became available for hits of all defenders after their move. Att.cavalry chose cavalry, pikes & warriors from this bunch of hitters sequentially in 3 rounds and then died.

    These results are aligned with "resource based" target theory that Darkbrady introduced. Swords overall value is way smaller than Warriors one. There is some minor discrepancy though as Cata value is bigger that Warriors one. But the values are close, so it's acceptable.

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