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Thread: Key Issues on Combat Mechanics~

  1. #471

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theuber View Post
    Then how is it that people can skip layers attacking a city when theres no defending ballista/pults/t/a/d?
    Wait... I think I've heard of this problem before. First of all whats your HBR on the account your attacking and whats the HBR on the Test account?

    I believe theres some kind of glitch where if the HBR levels aren't the same cav hit cav O.o Not sure though. Apparently 10 HBR vs 10 HBR cav will skip layers.
    HBR levels were already discussed a couple of posts back.
    This is why I stated that I couldn't do the test I wanted until I upgraded my test's account to HBR10.

    That said, they're both HBR10.
    There is no glitch. You just have to think about the effect of HBR and then everything will click. If the defender has lower HBR, then obviously the attacking Cav's speed would be higher and therefore they will get the priority being the fastest unit in the field. Conversely if the attacker has lower HBR, then the defending Cav's speed would be higher and they will receive the priority. The former case is what you're calling "skipping layers".

    That doesn't really relate in my proof because what I'm proving is: defender gets priority when the speed is equal.
    Last edited by Neokarasu; 12-17-2009 at 11:24 PM.
    Key Issues in Combat Mechanics:
    http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=63051

    Combat Calculator Redux:
    http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=84773

    Defensive Limitations suggestion:
    http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=93581
    Support please!

  2. #472

    Default Scouts layers

    battle100.evony.com/default.html?logfile/20091218/a9/75/a975e250df9b85af4c1a11ec59ca7bfa.xml

    I thought Scouts Didnt layer?

    update

    Last edited by PertolSniff; 12-18-2009 at 04:10 AM.

  3. #473

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    Quote Originally Posted by PertolSniff View Post
    battle100.evony.com/default.html?logfile/20091218/a9/75/a975e250df9b85af4c1a11ec59ca7bfa.xml

    I thought Scouts Didnt layer?

    update

    Noone ever said that.

    Scouts never charged into combat in the presence of other units but that doesn't mean Scouts can not layer. There is a distinct difference in the two statements.
    The former simply says: Scouts won't be the unit that is blocking the way between 2 Melee units.
    The latter says: Scouts can be used as a higher priority target vs Ranged units.

    Two very different statements and should not be interchanged.
    Key Issues in Combat Mechanics:
    http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=63051

    Combat Calculator Redux:
    http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=84773

    Defensive Limitations suggestion:
    http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=93581
    Support please!

  4. #474

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neokarasu View Post
    That doesn't really relate in my proof because what I'm proving is: defender gets priority when the speed is equal.
    Ohhhh I get it now. Interesting... but what if you add a scout on the other side and attack with cav? Theoretically of course :P

    EDIT: Or the attacking side...

  5. #475

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    But if my scouts werent there, on the 3rd round my Swads or Pike would have been hit.

  6. #476

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theuber View Post
    Ohhhh I get it now. Interesting... but what if you add a scout on the other side and attack with cav? Theoretically of course :P

    EDIT: Or the attacking side...
    Then I invoke the Scout's "last man standing" rule.
    That is, they don't move when there are other units present
    Otherwise, defending Scouts would effectively defend vs Scoutbombs.

    Quote Originally Posted by PertolSniff View Post
    But if my scouts werent there, on the 3rd round my Swads or Pike would have been hit.
    I thought the answer should be obvious after my last post but since it doesn't appear to be, I'll explain it in simpler terms.

    Scouts did not move to "get in the way" of the Cavs. It did, however, become a high priority target for the Archers after your 1 Archer died. Your report is the result of the combination of Archers and Cavs on the other side, not just from one of the element.

    Let's assume HBR is equal.

    So,

    Initial combat range = 1400

    R1: (D) Cavs moved to 1400 (or close to it). Every (A) units stayed or moved very slightly to meet (D) Cavs.
    (D) Archers shot at (A) Archer and (D) Cavs beat on (A) Cavs. (D) Cavs died because of the damage from (A) Pikes, Swords, and Cavs.

    R2: (A) Cavs charge to around point zero (you'd have to have really really crappy tech not to get there) and (A) Pikes and Swords moved up.
    (D) Archers kill (A) Scouts. (A) Cavs beat on (D) Archers and inflicts losses (but not killing them. remember (A) Cavs suffered casualties from R1).

    R3: (A) Pikes and Swords moved up again but not in range.
    (A) Cavs killed the rest of the (D) Archers while they shot at the (A) Cavs at 25% damage.

    Resulting report:
    (A) Archer and (A) Scouts died while (A) Cavs suffered casualties.
    However, the cause of death for the Scouts isn't "getting in the way" between melee units. It is simply by being a higher priority target for the defending Archers. In that sense, they did serve as a "layer" but not the same kind as the meatshield that people normally associate with layering.
    Key Issues in Combat Mechanics:
    http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=63051

    Combat Calculator Redux:
    http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=84773

    Defensive Limitations suggestion:
    http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=93581
    Support please!

  7. #477

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neokarasu View Post
    Believe it or not, defending Ranged units retain Wall bonus even when they're not standing on the Wall. So regardless of where they are in the field, as long the Archers are defending, they will get the Wall bonus.

    Just don't compare the game to real life, some things just doesn't work.

    I just noticed this discussion of defending Ranged unit Wall Bonus.

    I'm trying to quantify. Are the numbers in the following post correct?

    http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=17593

    Thanks!

  8. #478

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmsenior View Post
    I just noticed this discussion of defending Ranged unit Wall Bonus.

    I'm trying to quantify. Are the numbers in the following post correct?

    http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=17593

    Thanks!
    I didn't really care to look over old posts but to simplify:

    Wall gives 5% to range every level, just like Archery.
    The bonus is additive to Archery so just take base range * (20 + Archery level + Wall level) / 20.
    Key Issues in Combat Mechanics:
    http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=63051

    Combat Calculator Redux:
    http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=84773

    Defensive Limitations suggestion:
    http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=93581
    Support please!

  9. #479

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    OK. I know how to use cavalry plus a few ranged units layering to kill lots of archers.

    What happens when the defender has 200k warriors and 30k pike in the way though?

  10. #480

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    scout bombs do attack the highest value unit, but there value is there attack not there recource value. test it and you will see its 100% accurate. hope this helps

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