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Thread: Terms of use - make sure you read them

  1. #1

    Default Terms of use - make sure you read them

    This will probably get me banned or suspended or something because it will fall under the realm of dissent and the mods enjoy dropping things down the memory hole, but I think this little gem bears some public notice:

    From the terms that you implicitly agree to by playing the game, section 17 line 1:

    WHEN RUNNING, THE GAME MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER'S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) AND/OR CPU PROCESSES FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH EVONY. AN "UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM" AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE THAT, WHEN USED SIMULTANEOUSLY OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE GAME, WOULD CONSTITUTE A VIOLATION OF SECTIONS 1, 2 OR 9. IN THE EVENT THAT THE GAME DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM, REGAN MERCANTILE US, LLC MAY (a) COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO REGAN MERCANTILE US, LLC, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME AND DATE THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM WAS DETECTED; AND/OR (b) EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER THIS AGREEMENT OR THE EULA, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER.
    Now, I'm pretty sure that flash doesn't allow the developers to do any such thing, perhaps a flash expert might be able to shed some light on that. In any case, this is not acceptable, may even be illegal, and is yet another reason for me to quit playing this game. Evony has made it clear that they are not interested in keeping their user base happy, they are fine with keeping afloat by new resgistrations and not customer retention.

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again: The single REASON that you have a problem with bots is that the game mechanics are BROKEN and you BREAK them further by nerfing medals. Until you get it through your heads that bots are a response to the arms race and the inability to get medals you will continue to have a problem with them. There were about 100 great suggestions on the bot thread which Wildo decided needed to go to the memory hole because people were complaining and you don't tolerate dissent or complaints on this forum. What you, the Evony mods and Devs are missing here is that you are trying to fix the issue by policing the symptoms instead of addressing the root cause, which for clarity are the GAME MECHANICS not the bot users.

    If more people read the terms, i think you would have a lot less people playing. Go ask Sony about what happens with spyware.

  2. #2

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    im no expert in flash, but i mean we r playing the game. and they do i guess? do that?
    either way, people dont just use bots for those, if it were just for medals then that would be something completely different.

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  3. #3

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    I believe some of the bots out there are using flash and using the actual evony flash client to connect to the server (I might be wrong)

    In that case, i think its possible that evony could include flash software that can look inside the flash virtual machine to see if there is any other code that is running concurrently inside the flash environment.

    Outside the flash environment, well its possible for a flash movie to communicate with javascript running on the page... so potentially it could be doable to detect if the evony flash app is running in the proper html page.

    I dont think they could go look into ANY part of my RAM (they can go look in SOME part of my RAM)

    In particular, they cant detect a bot that is totally external to the browser.

    The only think they can see is how the actions taken by a bot. So far example, if a "click" bot always click on the exact same pixel of the same button, then they could assume its a bot.

    This kind of detection could easily by overcome by the bot, by introducing some random fuzz in the click position.

  4. #4
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    I still love how the OP is blaming Evony for cheaters. Because it's Evony's fault that people are cheating in the game. People will always cheat no matter what, not everyone will ever agree on what you consider broken.

    If you create armies too large for you to support then the game is not broken, your strategy is.

    If you come to a fork in the road, take it!
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  5. #5

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    Just to clear it up, Blizzard does the same thing. It's not illegal to make sure that you're not violating the TOS.
    Z.A.F.T.
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by abracax View Post
    I still love how the OP is blaming Evony for cheaters. Because it's Evony's fault that people are cheating in the game. People will always cheat no matter what, not everyone will ever agree on what you consider broken.

    If you create armies too large for you to support then the game is not broken, your strategy is.
    I still love how in every thread you can be counted on to defend Evony to the death even though 90% of the people posting are unhappy with how Evony is addressing the issues. I suggest you actually read the posts in this forum instead of knee-jerking "Defend evony at all costs" and you will see that the majority of people agree with me as to what is broken. I'd never expect EVERYONE to agree, but when you have a super majority, its pretty clear what needs to be done. Not to mention the fact that the original post is really about invasive spyware rather than condoning violating the TOS. As I said above, the issue is that Evony is focusing on treating the symptoms, not the root cause. This doesn't make it ok to cheat, this doesn't mean I think everyone should go against the terms of service, it means that I disagree with how Evony is running the game. Evony has a huge customer service issue, and a lot of customers that are very unhappy with the way they are being treated. The bots were created because:

    1) building queues aren't implemented they way they are for troops and wall defenses. Why not? This was the reason one of the bots was created in the first place.

    2) food storage limits are not enforced. This allows people to grow armies way beyond the size that the developers, by their own admission, ever intended. In order to be able to even play, that means you need to spend 90% of your time online farming to keep up with the bigger players. If you don't you are dead. Period. It's not a question of my strategy being broken, if I could play 24 hours a day 7 days a week, I could have as large an army as anyone else who does the same, but I can't. Add into that the bot users who use multiple accounts, etc, and there's no way to keep up without it. This problem in the game also leads to the game becoming who can farm the best, not who uses the best strategy, which also leads to people looking for ways to automate. I came to playing this game because I was interested in the strategy, not building an impossibly sized army and attacking NPC's all day and all night to keep them fed just to defend myself. There are other games I could be playing if all I wanted to do was to build a city and farm.

    3) medals are nerfed, supposedly to encourage sales. This leads to needing to do hundreds of thousands of attacks on valleys and npcs to get your medals to progress in the game unless you want to buy them. As someone else said "evony free (to be a noob) forever".

    All three of these items ENCOURAGE players to find ways to AUTOMATE the tedium so they can get back to the fun part of the game. You are right, there will always be some people who cheat at anything, however, the widespread adoption of the bot and script software is squarely on the shoulders of the Evony developers for changing the game mechanics (or not changing them) in ways that only serve to increase tedium instead of enhancing gameplay. What I am saying is Evony needs to address the symptoms (multi accounting, bots, whatnot) but ALSO needs to evaluate the root causes and listen to their customers and FIX what the majority of their customers are complaining about. I think probably 90% of the issues that Evony needs to address are in the above three points and fixes to them would cut down on peoples desire to use automation immensly. Installing spyware on the users computer is not the way to do it, nor is posturing about banning bot users while leaving multi account users free to do whatever they like.

    I am sensing a common thread to Evony's attitude toward their customers and it really seems to be pretty much that they really don't care about their current users, they just want to keep upping registrations.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rinsam View Post
    Just to clear it up, Blizzard does the same thing. It's not illegal to make sure that you're not violating the TOS.
    Can you point me to the section or documentation where it says they do the same thing? I don't see anything in their terms of use that says they will be monitoring your entire computer fishing for third party applications unrelated to the official client or in game data...

  8. #8
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    I love how someone who doesn't like somethin' about the game always jumps to "omfg will you stop defendin'/huggin'/arse-kissin' Evony already" everytime someone agrees w/ them.

    Fact is that for everyone person who doesn't like somethin', there's someone who does. This "90% of people agree w/ me" thing is complete mince; 50% of people agree w/ you, the other 50% disagree...problem is that 48% of them don't do jack about it becasue they either don't read the forums, didn't see your thread or knew you'd crawl up their ass if they even considered disagreein' w/ you, jus' like every other thread like this. It gets old, really fast.

    He's right...people cheat. In every game. Everywhere. Always. Forever. Always. Ever. There's nothin' anyone can do about it; people cheat in games, people cheat at life, people cheat on everythin'. Jus' becasue they get a sweet deal by cheatin' and/or you get left behind/screwed becasue of it doesn't mean you shold go around blamin' others...there's only so much they can do about it.

    They went to all sorts of measures to preventin' cheatin' in my high school exams, but believe me a lot of people walked out of their with grades they shouldn't have got. But yeah, we should totally blame the school for not doin' strip searches on every student who walked into the hall before the test started...right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Satan
    I said before I need to be in the top 100 players or else I won't be able to defend myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ken Deathmarr View Post
    You know, I don't understand your post sometimes ok? So I take it as a mean threat.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbrady View Post
    I love how someone who doesn't like somethin' about the game always jumps to "omfg will you stop defendin'/huggin'/arse-kissin' Evony already" everytime someone agrees w/ them.
    Uh, no, I said that because he defends evony without reason in EVERY SINGLE POST HE MAKES.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbrady View Post
    Fact is that for everyone person who doesn't like somethin', there's someone who does. This "90% of people agree w/ me" thing is complete mince; 50% of people agree w/ you, the other 50% disagree...problem is that 48% of them don't do jack about it becasue they either don't read the forums, didn't see your thread or knew you'd crawl up their ass if they even considered disagreein' w/ you, jus' like every other thread like this. It gets old, really fast.
    If you dont speak up, your vote or opinion can't be counted. What I see on the forums is very large number of people complaining about the same thing over and over and over and over, and Evony continuing to ignore them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkbrady View Post
    He's right...people cheat. In every game. Everywhere. Always. Forever. Always. Ever. There's nothin' anyone can do about it; people cheat in games, people cheat at life, people cheat on everythin'. Jus' becasue they get a sweet deal by cheatin' and/or you get left behind/screwed becasue of it doesn't mean you shold go around blamin' others...there's only so much they can do about it.

    They went to all sorts of measures to preventin' cheatin' in my high school exams, but believe me a lot of people walked out of their with grades they shouldn't have got. But yeah, we should totally blame the school for not doin' strip searches on every student who walked into the hall before the test started...right?
    I already said I agree people cheat... Evony is effectively doing the strip search here by monitoring all processes on my computer and all of the ram of my computer, so I'm not really sure what your point is. My point is that if Evony addresses WHY people cheat, less people will feel the need. Is that really so difficult to grasp?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomize View Post
    Uh, no, I said that because he defends evony without reason in EVERY SINGLE POST HE MAKES.
    So you think people are only allowed to defend Evony so many times, then they should hate and troll for a few posts?

    Quote Originally Posted by randomize View Post
    If you dont speak up, your vote or opinion can't be counted. What I see on the forums is very large number of people complaining about the same thing over and over and over and over, and Evony continuing to ignore them.
    So we can agree that the forums are pretty much jus' full of whiners complainin' about the same things over and over and over and over again and flamin' anyone who defends evony (with or without reason) and make it a pretty unpleasant experience for anyone who doesn't hate the game?
    Aye, I'll run w/ that. Doesn't change the fact that jus' as many people disagree w/ you as agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by randomize View Post
    I already said I agree people cheat... Evony is effectively doing the strip search here by monitoring all processes on my computer and all of the ram of my computer, so I'm not really sure what your point is. My point is that if Evony addresses WHY people cheat, less people will feel the need. Is that really so difficult to grasp?
    Bzzzzzzt.
    People cheat becasue people are lazy.
    People would cheat on Pacman if they could. People cheat on every game ever. Why? Because they dont like the challenge. The people who like the challenge play and deal w/ it. Even the folk who whine and complain still prefer it. If someone's gunna cheat, then they were gunna cheat anyways. To fix the issue WHY they cheat? Well the solution to that would be...let's say 100% medal drop rate, 0 food upkeep and instant contrustion/troop trainin'...now no one will cheat....or play...but mainly, no one'll cheat.

    That's what you wanted, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Satan
    I said before I need to be in the top 100 players or else I won't be able to defend myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ken Deathmarr View Post
    You know, I don't understand your post sometimes ok? So I take it as a mean threat.

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