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Thread: SOME of You Cheaters, Beware!!!

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  1. #1

    Default SOME of You Cheaters, Beware!!!

    This is NOT a BOT thread.

    EVONY wants to ban bot programs because they feel that the players using them are abusing the system they have created by automatically setting building upgrades, hero hunting, NPC farming, etc.

    Fine. It's their ball. They can bounce it any way they want.

    But when the topic begins to turn to players having multiple accounts on the same server, EVONY gets real quiet and the thread gets closed.

    WHY?

    Probably because if they ban multiple accounts, that "11 Million Players Online" ad they just posted would read "5.5 Million Angry Players Wondering Where Their 'Other' Account(s) Went".

    Cheating is cheating, regardless of the style of cheating.

    Where is the threatening letter about legal action against players using feeder accounts?

    EVONY has the ability to stop feeder accounts, not bots. They have chosen to allow one type of cheating which they CAN stop, and ban a type of cheating they have no real way of stopping, other than guessing who is using a bot.

    Hypocrisy anyone?

    If you want to ban cheating, ban cheating. If you want to allow cheating, allow cheating. But be consistent.

    It's one or the other, not both.

    The problem with standing on both sides of the fence is that, eventually, you fall and land on the fence.

  2. #2

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    well the prob is they have to prove you ahve 2 accounts. i personally have several members of my family sharing a fixed ip. so it could look like I have several accounts. Thou I only have 1. see where the problem is?

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason_mazzy View Post
    well the prob is they have to prove you ahve 2 accounts. i personally have several members of my family sharing a fixed ip. so it could look like I have several accounts. Thou I only have 1. see where the problem is?
    well said, you actually think siblings will just share one account??? good luck

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jason_mazzy View Post
    well the prob is they have to prove you ahve 2 accounts. i personally have several members of my family sharing a fixed ip. so it could look like I have several accounts. Thou I only have 1. see where the problem is?
    I agree. If Evony were to go around banning people who they only thought had multi's, I think a lot of innocent people might have their account banned. The closest way to be sure would be to look at computer use addresses, but that would mean people in a family and people using loaned/public computers would be banned.
    When life throws problems at you follow my advice:

    1. Stuff them in the closet.

    2. Give them to that annoying coworker next to you.

    3. Eat them.

    4. If you want to do something good with your problems, give them to the person who controls the medal drop rates.

  5. #5
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    Default

    nothing i really want to say to this would be appropriate for my current position so ill just say this: if you dont know exactly what a company is capable of dont go around saying what they are and arent able to do
    135 gray rep 158/200 rep points Rep me if i helped!! thnx!!

    OUT OF BASIC YAAY!!! Now I'm in tech school

  6. #6

    Default A simple call then...

    ...To the devs of Yahoo Games, Ultimate Bet, PokerStars, or a number of other online gaming sites that have developed a simple method of preventing multiple accounts from an IP.

    It's hard to convince me that the ability isn't there. Perhaps the knowledge then?

    As far as several people using the same IP...

    If single players can take advantage of the system, it needs to be banned. Not every player has the knowledge or the time to do it, but EVERYONE has the potential to do it.

    Again, both sides of the fence.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brightfang View Post
    nothing i really want to say to this would be appropriate for my current position so ill just say this: if you dont know exactly what a company is capable of dont go around saying what they are and arent able to do
    Are they able to hold up their end of a bargain? As far as I can tell, the answer is no. I would like to know why that is. How do they go about sending mail that you will get a specific bonus when you spend money and then they don't give you that bonus?? Do you know?

    The reason I am posting this here is because it is not getting answered anywhere else. I don't think that is a fair way to treat those of us who are honest and are playing the game as it was intended.
    Last edited by crazefox; 11-20-2009 at 07:19 PM. Reason: Addt'l info ?

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brightfang View Post
    nothing i really want to say to this would be appropriate for my current position so ill just say this: if you dont know exactly what a company is capable of dont go around saying what they are and arent able to do
    two faced?

    server 79

    4 taan accounts

    4 iliam accounts

    do a name check and suspend them until they can prove it isnt dual accounts

    the two mentioned have as many cities as any duke - and because all four accounts are in the same alliance (taan is a host of an alliance) they feed each other with resources and protect each other with troops as if it were a dukes account

    the original poster says it so well

    why the duplicity??

  9. #9

    Default Perception

    Quote Originally Posted by Brightfang View Post
    nothing i really want to say to this would be appropriate for my current position so ill just say this: if you dont know exactly what a company is capable of dont go around saying what they are and arent able to do
    Would all those who begin to read this please accept my apologies for wandering slightly off thread at the beginning of this post.

    My message needs airing I feel.

    Brightfang - I'd like to challenge your comment above if I may please, in an attempt to be of some help.

    I think what you may be witnessing is the way we as customers perceive Evony ( UMGE ).

    Let me tell you how I perceive your company.

    They aren't perhaps the best communicators in the world.

    Communication is a two way event. It's also something that needs to be continuous.

    This is a game. People come here to play. I'd like if I may to explore this with you please.

    Would you agree that it is a fundamental requirement upon UMGE that they keep the game fair for all? Let me assume we can agree it is.

    Simply then what we have is a huge black hole where information is concerned.

    1 ) There is no real feed back from UMGE - one e-mail doesn't really constitute communication. Indeed with the benefit of hindsight I'd go so far as to suggest that the e-mail has probably antagonised what was already a very precarious situation in regard to the use of bots. I'd suggest that many of us are capable of reading between the lines and the general concensus would appear to be that UMGE aren't financially capable of preventing widespread use of bots. The email has come over as a hollow warning. A lion without teeth.

    2 ) The issue would appear to be a no brainer. UMGE aren't capable of preventing the use of bots. This isn't a criticism, merely a perceived reality.

    3 ) By failing to address the above UMGE are creating a general perception amongst their customers, which is simply what you are seeing in our comments.

    4 ) So - we are where we are. Brightfang would you agree that the current situation is far from perfect?

    5 ) Would you agree that if you are unable to comment on this issue that UMGE should? This would help greatly with customer relationships.

    6 ) It is true - we don't know what UMGE are capable of - but I would respectfully suggest that this simply reflects the lack of communication UMGE use with their customers. Surely the only way we can know is if UMGE tell us. In the meantime, being simply human, we have to make assumptions.

    7 ) This is a game. It is inferred that UMGE are required to keep it fair for all. If they are unable to do this, do you think they should at least be honest about this?

    The current silence from UMGE does little to help in my opinion and they should open two way communications immediately.

    Again I call for UMGE to make a statement regarding the subject of bots which allows those of us who do not use them to make a fully informed decision as to whether we continue to play. This in my mind seems nothing short of fair.

    That's all we're asking for Brightfang. To be treated honestly and fairly.

    No more.

    No less

    All the very best
    Darrell

  10. #10

    Default

    Meh... here's just my thoughts.. take em or trash em as you will... I'm bored with NPC farming and feel like blathering...

    To begin with.. while no, it's not terribly *hard* or *expensive* to catch many of the botters/multi-ers... it's a flaming pain in the butt. A "Log of everything" for a game the size of Evony would be farkin huge... like.. billions of entries. Billions upon billions. Lots even.

    Yeah, you can set up a program to parse that kinda thing via computer.. to flag suspicious bits and such.. even summarize reports and heck, even hand out the bans... although that's mebbe risky...

    But to get something that thought through, well designed, and with minimal "false positives"... I'mma say that's gonna take a fairly large amount of dev time and brainwork. OR it's gonna take a fair amount of admin legwork to review all the various "flagged reports"... assuming one doesn't set the machine up for autoban...

    As companies go... even setting up dedicated hardware to parse all those logs...not terribly expensive. Hiring a few people to review the reports and sift... not terribly expensive either. Pain in the butt? Most assuredly.

    Catching *everybody* who cheats while still maintaining an acceptable minimum of "false positives"? (and figuring out what such a minimum is.. many players would say "ZERO" quite loudly if it was their account on a FP list...) Nigh on impossible. There's just too many variables, too many different ways to mask things..

    I mean, I know a musician guy who uses a drum machine on his albums.. No human drummer is perfect.. there's always a hair's breadth difference between them and 'dead on the beat, every time".. Well, you can't tell on his stuff. I mean, you honestly can't. He and I've both taken some serious musical training, and I can't hear any difference with his, whereas usually I can pick a drum machine out with ease..

    How does he do this? He programs imperfections into the drum machine routine. Even to the point of figuring out whether he wants the drummer to be right or left handed, and where each drum is in the kit with relation to the drummer's handedness. And it works.

    Is this exceedingly anal-retentive? Absolutely.. lol. However.. If you can program a drum machine to fool the ear of an experienced, trained audiophile... you can program a bot to fool the vast majority of automated detection techniques. Would anyone bother? oh, maybe.. just for the heck of it.. or as a "cause"... or whatever... People do all kinds of nutty stuff for all kinds of different reasons..

    Point I'm trying to get at... is that Evony will never catch *all* the cheaters.. unless they go uber-draconian on us, and then everybody will freak out because they're being "facist" or somesuch..

    The best we can reasonably hope for is taking some steps to crush the most egregious cheaters and violators and such..

    As I've said before.. I'm not terribly worried about multi-ers.. I don't see that as much more an advantage than a decent alliance.. But bots.. bots can be abused *severely*.. and have been.. and are being.. Would I care if somebody used a bot to be able to put in as many play hours as I do? Not particularly. In order not to be detected, a botter would need to simulate the play of a "live human".. and well, that's basically them just doing what I do...
    If they do it for a week straight with no breaks.. well, they're not simulating then.

    Far as the "legal threats" go... I laugh at them. With the expense that lawyers entail.. it would be a severe waste of money for Evony to even *try* suing botters. Or bot creators.. etc... I'm sure Evony's management has figured that one out, even if they haven't yet figured out that "communication with the playerbase is important."
    <19:42>[DPS]: can i have the coords of that 'real life' please.. i'dd like to scout it

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