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Thread: SOME of You Cheaters, Beware!!!

  1. #71

    Default Finally!

    Some one who understands. Well done!

  2. #72

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    Nice way of putting it. Yes, that seems to be the way of things.

  3. #73

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    Pppfffffffttttttttttt!!!!!!!

  4. #74

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    I just have to say, Currently I'm unable to login and my account has been suspended because according to administration, " I have violated the rules of the game... through all forbidden uses.. including using a bott.." Now how in the F**K can someone who is a real person, like me, prove them otherwise?? yes, I have been building daily my city and have yet to attack anyone. The only way they would have though I was a bot, is if someone reported me because i decided to ignore their threat or request to join them. I applaud The administration of evony to boot these so called bots, but i hope they actually do their homework, and look into people before freezing their account.

    As for the person whom I feel reported me... I'm gonna make him my personal farm.. and alliance Annihilant, I'm holding you responsible!

  5. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir T. R. E. Jr. View Post
    ---I agree there should be an EVONY said offenders list, title the sticky forum eSOL if you will. Then when people see their buddies being banned they will decide which account they need to keep and if they get banned while transferring resources from one account to the next, oh well... their name goes on the eSOL list too.
    No matter what someone does, doing that (publically naming names) violates that/those person(s)' privacy. Any actions taken against them are between UMGE and that player, and are none of anyone else's business.
    Last edited by Ashanta; 11-21-2009 at 07:37 PM.
    But....the eternal ray of sunshine REALLY wanted to see you, so I helped brighten your day by removing the city from around you! ^.^

  6. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brightfang View Post
    nothing i really want to say to this would be appropriate for my current position so ill just say this: if you dont know exactly what a company is capable of dont go around saying what they are and arent able to do
    two faced?

    server 79

    4 taan accounts

    4 iliam accounts

    do a name check and suspend them until they can prove it isnt dual accounts

    the two mentioned have as many cities as any duke - and because all four accounts are in the same alliance (taan is a host of an alliance) they feed each other with resources and protect each other with troops as if it were a dukes account

    the original poster says it so well

    why the duplicity??

  7. #77

    Default Perception

    Quote Originally Posted by Brightfang View Post
    nothing i really want to say to this would be appropriate for my current position so ill just say this: if you dont know exactly what a company is capable of dont go around saying what they are and arent able to do
    Would all those who begin to read this please accept my apologies for wandering slightly off thread at the beginning of this post.

    My message needs airing I feel.

    Brightfang - I'd like to challenge your comment above if I may please, in an attempt to be of some help.

    I think what you may be witnessing is the way we as customers perceive Evony ( UMGE ).

    Let me tell you how I perceive your company.

    They aren't perhaps the best communicators in the world.

    Communication is a two way event. It's also something that needs to be continuous.

    This is a game. People come here to play. I'd like if I may to explore this with you please.

    Would you agree that it is a fundamental requirement upon UMGE that they keep the game fair for all? Let me assume we can agree it is.

    Simply then what we have is a huge black hole where information is concerned.

    1 ) There is no real feed back from UMGE - one e-mail doesn't really constitute communication. Indeed with the benefit of hindsight I'd go so far as to suggest that the e-mail has probably antagonised what was already a very precarious situation in regard to the use of bots. I'd suggest that many of us are capable of reading between the lines and the general concensus would appear to be that UMGE aren't financially capable of preventing widespread use of bots. The email has come over as a hollow warning. A lion without teeth.

    2 ) The issue would appear to be a no brainer. UMGE aren't capable of preventing the use of bots. This isn't a criticism, merely a perceived reality.

    3 ) By failing to address the above UMGE are creating a general perception amongst their customers, which is simply what you are seeing in our comments.

    4 ) So - we are where we are. Brightfang would you agree that the current situation is far from perfect?

    5 ) Would you agree that if you are unable to comment on this issue that UMGE should? This would help greatly with customer relationships.

    6 ) It is true - we don't know what UMGE are capable of - but I would respectfully suggest that this simply reflects the lack of communication UMGE use with their customers. Surely the only way we can know is if UMGE tell us. In the meantime, being simply human, we have to make assumptions.

    7 ) This is a game. It is inferred that UMGE are required to keep it fair for all. If they are unable to do this, do you think they should at least be honest about this?

    The current silence from UMGE does little to help in my opinion and they should open two way communications immediately.

    Again I call for UMGE to make a statement regarding the subject of bots which allows those of us who do not use them to make a fully informed decision as to whether we continue to play. This in my mind seems nothing short of fair.

    That's all we're asking for Brightfang. To be treated honestly and fairly.

    No more.

    No less

    All the very best
    Darrell

  8. #78

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    Meh... here's just my thoughts.. take em or trash em as you will... I'm bored with NPC farming and feel like blathering...

    To begin with.. while no, it's not terribly *hard* or *expensive* to catch many of the botters/multi-ers... it's a flaming pain in the butt. A "Log of everything" for a game the size of Evony would be farkin huge... like.. billions of entries. Billions upon billions. Lots even.

    Yeah, you can set up a program to parse that kinda thing via computer.. to flag suspicious bits and such.. even summarize reports and heck, even hand out the bans... although that's mebbe risky...

    But to get something that thought through, well designed, and with minimal "false positives"... I'mma say that's gonna take a fairly large amount of dev time and brainwork. OR it's gonna take a fair amount of admin legwork to review all the various "flagged reports"... assuming one doesn't set the machine up for autoban...

    As companies go... even setting up dedicated hardware to parse all those logs...not terribly expensive. Hiring a few people to review the reports and sift... not terribly expensive either. Pain in the butt? Most assuredly.

    Catching *everybody* who cheats while still maintaining an acceptable minimum of "false positives"? (and figuring out what such a minimum is.. many players would say "ZERO" quite loudly if it was their account on a FP list...) Nigh on impossible. There's just too many variables, too many different ways to mask things..

    I mean, I know a musician guy who uses a drum machine on his albums.. No human drummer is perfect.. there's always a hair's breadth difference between them and 'dead on the beat, every time".. Well, you can't tell on his stuff. I mean, you honestly can't. He and I've both taken some serious musical training, and I can't hear any difference with his, whereas usually I can pick a drum machine out with ease..

    How does he do this? He programs imperfections into the drum machine routine. Even to the point of figuring out whether he wants the drummer to be right or left handed, and where each drum is in the kit with relation to the drummer's handedness. And it works.

    Is this exceedingly anal-retentive? Absolutely.. lol. However.. If you can program a drum machine to fool the ear of an experienced, trained audiophile... you can program a bot to fool the vast majority of automated detection techniques. Would anyone bother? oh, maybe.. just for the heck of it.. or as a "cause"... or whatever... People do all kinds of nutty stuff for all kinds of different reasons..

    Point I'm trying to get at... is that Evony will never catch *all* the cheaters.. unless they go uber-draconian on us, and then everybody will freak out because they're being "facist" or somesuch..

    The best we can reasonably hope for is taking some steps to crush the most egregious cheaters and violators and such..

    As I've said before.. I'm not terribly worried about multi-ers.. I don't see that as much more an advantage than a decent alliance.. But bots.. bots can be abused *severely*.. and have been.. and are being.. Would I care if somebody used a bot to be able to put in as many play hours as I do? Not particularly. In order not to be detected, a botter would need to simulate the play of a "live human".. and well, that's basically them just doing what I do...
    If they do it for a week straight with no breaks.. well, they're not simulating then.

    Far as the "legal threats" go... I laugh at them. With the expense that lawyers entail.. it would be a severe waste of money for Evony to even *try* suing botters. Or bot creators.. etc... I'm sure Evony's management has figured that one out, even if they haven't yet figured out that "communication with the playerbase is important."
    <19:42>[DPS]: can i have the coords of that 'real life' please.. i'dd like to scout it

  9. #79

    Default after a week off, its time to bring it back

    Quote Originally Posted by HaddenUff View Post
    Oh is that what it is....I think you have missed my point. That's cool. How many times have you bought from a third party seller, how many times have you shared your account details, how many times have you ALWAYS done the RIGHT THING? hmmm, kinda guessed you couldn't answer that one with any degree of integrity. /shrug.



    Really dude, you don't have a clue do you. The reality is that while ALL game developers will make a noise about this, any dev that has spent more than 15mins developing can tell you that it is all but impossible to stop a dedicated cheater. You know that old saying "where there is a will, there is a way"? Cheats will cheat, they will always find a way to cheat. Look at CSS leagues, even with a dedicated anti-cheat being deployed, there are still cheats - there are ways to circumvent it. People are creative and intelligent (well some aren't but thats a whole other post).

    The temptation to cheat is proportionate to the time wastage in a game. The more a pain in the ... a game is the more people will want to cheat. The more people want to cheat the more demand there is for cheat development. The more sophisticated the cheat, the greater the allure to use the cheat. The more lucrative it is to cheat the more people will use it. This may prompt developers to develop an anti-cheat to counter the cheat - and this requires a considerable investment - if your profits are small this may not be possible. The more time spent developing an anti-cheat the less time spent developing the game. And on this merry-go-round, the more sophisticated the anti-cheat.....

    The only people who lose out on cracking down on cheats in the long run are the end users - particularly those who pay - as their funds (if at all) are diverted to counter-cheat development. Cheats or no cheats, eventually the game economy will find its own balance with or without intervention.



    Perhaps you should be interested. Understanding the context in which your argument exists is fundamental to being able to argue your case effectively.
    Let's talk about clues:

    EVONY says that multiple accounts on a server is not allowed, then makes it possible to do it. The original question was, and still is, why still allow it? It can be stopped easily, but it isn't. People are still doing it in every server with no apparent repercussions.

    I am not interested in why or how players cheat. They cheat because they can. They always have and they always will. IF there is a hole, players WILL exploit it. It's what people do when they think no one is looking. Problem here is there IS a hole that EVONY has CHOSEN to not fix, though they easily can. The there is no more questions about why they are cheating. Stop allowing IP's to have more than 1 account per server. Problem solved. What does that have to do with player ethics?

    Dedicated cheaters will always be there. But the company could at least make it difficult for them.

    The amount of cheaters in a game are not proportionate to the amount of time wastage, but the amount of money invested. The more you invest, the more you care. The less you invest, the better it is. The balance you are talking about is supply and demand. How much cheating can be done to further the game with the least money spent. It has nothing to do with time. If BOTTERS spent the money, they could support their game without the need to farm at all. If MULTIs spent the money, they wouldn't need the second accounts (or the thirds, fourths, fifths, etc).

    Perhaps you should go back and (re)think through the arguement.

  10. #80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jason_mazzy View Post
    well the prob is they have to prove you ahve 2 accounts. i personally have several members of my family sharing a fixed ip. so it could look like I have several accounts. Thou I only have 1. see where the problem is?
    I agree. If Evony were to go around banning people who they only thought had multi's, I think a lot of innocent people might have their account banned. The closest way to be sure would be to look at computer use addresses, but that would mean people in a family and people using loaned/public computers would be banned.
    When life throws problems at you follow my advice:

    1. Stuff them in the closet.

    2. Give them to that annoying coworker next to you.

    3. Eat them.

    4. If you want to do something good with your problems, give them to the person who controls the medal drop rates.

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