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Thread: What's ruining Evony?

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  1. #1

    Default What's ruining Evony?

    Recently I've noticed a few things
    1 Evony is becomming less fun
    2 Evony is becomming less balanced
    3 Evony's "top players" (at least on my server) patting each other on the back and passing judgment on others who do the same thing they do but on a dif scale.

    Lets start with 1 and 2
    Evony is a war game. In order for it to have a give and take flow it needs a balance. However when the balance is broken the flow becomes 1 sided and that leads to fewer players and less dynamics. We break down the players as follows
    1 casual players who obey the rules and play a bit here and there and basically treat Evony as some sort of sim city building game. They seldom even bother to learn how to min/max what little they do have.
    2 players who play a moderate to extreme amounts of time but obey the rules, no botting and no second/third/forth etc accounts.
    3players who have 1+ extra accounts that they use to supply wood/iron/food to their main account
    4 players who have upped their heros far enough to farm lv10 npc's like most farm lvl 5's players
    5 botters. People who use google or whatever to have another site log in and farm lvl 5's 20 hours a day giving them resources in the billions and troop numbers in the tens of millions
    6 combinations of the above set up to a certain min/max they like

    This means the 1st type has no way to combat the 2nd tier and above and the 2nd tier has no chance to combat the 3rd tier and above and the third tier has no chance to combat the 4th tier and above. The 4-6 are actually more or less on an even playing field because many of them have billions of resources in reserve and troop numbering in the 10's of millions.

    Once you start to break Evony rules or use exploits, you become "uber". imho once you begin to cheat and everyone on any establishd server who is a major player, is cheating, you've ruined the game and imho have the play ability of a 9yo who steals money/realestate in the monopoly game or uses cheat codes on video games. While you can wreck anyone who isn't as big a cheater as you, your tactics usually suck and the main reason you've learned combo's of what to send is because you have so many troops it doesn't matter what you make and waste. Something you'd never have been able to learn by playing evony by it's rules. Do I hold the players accountable for cheating? No, they wanna play the game and "win" and if the only way to win is to cheat more then the next guy then you do what you gotta do.

    However I do hold Evony responsible and will here by explain how evony can fix their game.

    First to the botters. Have a screen pop up over the "quest screen" that pops up everytime you log in. Have it be one of those squigily letter/number deals where you have to type them in before you can do anything with the game. Second have 1 of the "buttons" randomly light up as orange (the way mail lights up as blue) Make it so it must be clicked on before any other button is clicked on to start the game. Have it change with every log in attempt and close the account after three failed attempts in a row for 24 hours.

    High Heroes. Either make all heroes max out to 200 in each ability or the following
    Buy a hero for $10 per 100 levels up to 300, plus an additional 100 levels per 6mos age of server. Have the hero be marked special so you may only have 1such hero per account. Have level 10 NPC cities have a random small chance of having such a hero too. Make a new item that lets you change a hero's primary attribute from int/politics/attack to a different one. have this to be a rare drop off lvl 10 npc's and player vs player attacks. All these 300+ heroes need a special code so no one can have more then 1 of each type on an account not even from captureing another players. Only other way to get another 300+ hero should be to raise them normally from scratch
    This allows a casual player to now learn how to farm lv10's too and gives him/her the chance to at least defend decently

    Secondary accounts, not sure how to handle these since some people actually do have a family member or two who play from the same computer and I've logged onto my account when visity a friend who plays too just to ensure my troops didn't starve or back in the day to start another science. The easiest way is to give a production bonus of resources like 5%-10% per city you have. This then makes any secondary accounts played required to get more cities which then means they need to be played more which in the end if someone wants to play 2+ accounts a lot, no way to stop but would lessen bonus of having 1+ etra accounts to just use 1 city for resources. Increaseing the production of resources for cities and vallies would give everyone more troops but % wise the biggest benifit goes to the smaller guy.

    Lastly we return to number 3. Can you really call yourself uber if you use cheats and/or exploits? There isn't a single person on an establish server who can say they are in the top % of their server's players who doesn't cheat/exploit some how. Not a critisism so much as blunt honesty. Evony can run the numbers. Manually the only person who could maybe be so uber is a professional typist (not data entry but actuel 160+ words a minute typist).

    I don't wanna see a single person claim to be a professional typist, just sit down and don't say a word, a professional typist is either working too much to play this game or has retired and doesn't want anything to do with a keyboard and comp game.
    Soulbreach of MLIair

  2. #2
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    You have some very interesting ideas. I don't know if I agree with the hero level caps, but the city production bonus is a nice thought.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    Lastly we return to number 3. Can you really call yourself uber if you use cheats and/or exploits? There isn't a single person on an establish server who can say they are in the top % of their server's players who doesn't cheat/exploit some how. Not a critisism so much as blunt honesty. Evony can run the numbers. Manually the only person who could maybe be so uber is a professional typist (not data entry but actuel 160+ words a minute typist).
    Top % in terms of ranking or ability? Either way, I could give you two names in the top 35 players of Server N1 - an established merger server of four other alliances. If Evony could show me one of them cheated, I'd quit the game.

    You don't have to be an uber typist... just a great strategist, who is diligent and makes great choices. I can empathize with you feeling at times that there is no other avenue than to join the ridiculous cheets in the game, but really... you can get there without them... the tortoise wins the race.

    Oh, and neither of them have a dvorak keyboard either. :P lol

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    1 Evony is becomming less fun
    I believe Evony becomes less fun once you have to spend copious amounts of time on mundane tasks, such as launching 50,000 attacks against valleys to get 1 rose medal so you can have 3 cities.


    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    2 Evony is becomming less balanced
    Evony will never be "balanced", nor can it be. It is virtually impossible to start playing on an "older" server where there are players with prestige in the tens of millions.

    Even if you start new on a fresh server, unless you spend copious amounts of real cash on "game coins", you will be easily left in the dust by players who will invest real money into the game.


    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    3 Evony's "top players" (at least on my server) patting each other on the back and passing judgment on others who do the same thing they do but on a dif scale.
    Well, I haven't experienced this myself, but I see no reason to be degrading to new players with less experience than I have.


    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    This means the 1st type has no way to combat the 2nd tier and above and the 2nd tier has no chance to combat the 3rd tier and above and the third tier has no chance to combat the 4th tier and above.
    That's the way it is in real life too when it comes to military matters. The country of Panama cannot compete against the country of Mexico, and the country of Mexico cannot compete against the country of the United States.


    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    imho once you begin to cheat and everyone on any establishd server who is a major player, is cheating, you've ruined the game and imho have the play ability of a 9yo who steals money/realestate in the monopoly game or uses cheat codes on video games.
    It is my personal opinion that all the top-level players "cheat"... The top-level players all have armies that number into the millions (maybe even 10's of millions), and I see no viable way within Evony for some of these players to maintain the army sizes they do without cheating.

    I do not see how NPC farming lvl 10 NPCs is viable -- even with a 260 ATK hero I see army losses which, in order to regenerate those loses you need more resources than you gather from the farming activity itself.


    Does that make the game unbalanced? Sure. Fortunately (thusfar) I've been able to stay away from being attacked by any of those top players (others in my alliance, however, have not been as fortunate)


    Despite what some others say, there is no real "strategy" in Evony. Battle mechanics are codified in machine code and the random element of chance, or the ingenuity of the human mind, does not come into play. It is merely a numbers game, and the reality is, he who has the largest size army wins (generally speaking, if he knows how Evony's battle mechanics work).

    About the only strategy that really exists is getting to know your opponent -- trying to find out when s/he is online and offline, so you can launch your attacks when s/he is not around to respond.

    [This is, IMO, one aspect of Evony I think turns the most people off to the game... Evony is a 24/7/365 game, yet doesn't really give you the tools to manage your cities on a 24/7/365 basis. Just because you are sleeping doesn't mean if your city was under attack you wouldn't be woken up by an aid, would it?]


    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    Buy a hero for $10 per 100 levels up to 300
    You can buy items from the shop now that will level up your hero.

    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    Make a new item that lets you change a hero's primary attribute from int/politics/attack to a different one.
    You can do this now by redistributing points.


    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    Secondary accounts, not sure how to handle these since some people actually do have a family member or two who play from the same computer
    I have a father and 2 sons in my alliance who play. How do you deal with them?

  5. #5

    Default respond to testpig

    testpig you redirect and misrepresent well, so I'll point out the errors I think You've made and critisism without offering solutions speaks ill of anyone who uses such a tactic in a debate. For those of you who weren't mislead by testpig and see valid points in my words, skip over this. For those who think testpig had valid points please read this, tx

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MichDry
    1 Evony is becomming less fun

    "I believe Evony becomes less fun once you have to spend copious amounts of time on mundane tasks, such as launching 50,000 attacks against valleys to get 1 rose medal so you can have 3 cities."

    All games have a boreing part. This is about having balance in war and making stragagies worth something.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MichDry
    2 Evony is becomming less balanced

    "Evony will never be "balanced", nor can it be. It is virtually impossible to start playing on an "older" server where there are players with prestige in the tens of millions.

    Even if you start new on a fresh server, unless you spend copious amounts of real cash on "game coins", you will be easily left in the dust by players who will invest real money into the game."

    Again you're missing the point on purpose we're talking about a regular player topping out with roughly 100k archers and some layers in it per city and then you have those who play a lot who can double it and then you have the insane 300+ heroes who can farm 10's like I farm 5's I know because I'm getting into farming 10's and they've paid for me since I broke 200 attack. You do need to figure out some things about them but then it gets easier as you go.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MichDry
    3 Evony's "top players" (at least on my server) patting each other on the back and passing judgment on others who do the same thing they do but on a dif scale.

    "Well, I haven't experienced this myself, but I see no reason to be degrading to new players with less experience than I have."

    So you want those who are non cheaters to not farm the nuubs yet it's ok for the botters and such to farm the non cheaters? As for the pats on the back. You're telling me your server discussion threads never have threads and posts about who's better and which alliance is?




    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MichDry
    This means the 1st type has no way to combat the 2nd tier and above and the 2nd tier has no chance to combat the 3rd tier and above and the third tier has no chance to combat the 4th tier and above.

    "That's the way it is in real life too when it comes to military matters. The country of Panama cannot compete against the country of Mexico, and the country of Mexico cannot compete against the country of the United States."

    Ahh excusing something by saying it's like that all over. Hmm last time I checked when I played chess niether me nor my opponent added extra queens and bishops to the game when the judge and other wasn't looking. Perhaps where you play games cheating isn't only allowed but expected.




    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MichDry
    imho once you begin to cheat and everyone on any establishd server who is a major player, is cheating, you've ruined the game and imho have the play ability of a 9yo who steals money/realestate in the monopoly game or uses cheat codes on video games.

    It is my personal opinion that all the top-level players "cheat"... The top-level players all have armies that number into the millions (maybe even 10's of millions), and I see no viable way within Evony for some of these players to maintain the army sizes they do without cheating.

    "I do not see how NPC farming lvl 10 NPCs is viable -- even with a 260 ATK hero I see army losses which, in order to regenerate those loses you need more resources than you gather from the farming activity itself."

    I've learned how to do it and my best attack hero is under 260. You need to do mroe then bot if you're a top player and don't know how to farm 10's. I even know of a few people who bot 10's


    "Does that make the game unbalanced? Sure. Fortunately (thusfar) I've been able to stay away from being attacked by any of those top players (others in my alliance, however, have not been as fortunate)"

    So we must all learn to be like you and learn to avoid wars in a war game?



    "Despite what some others say, there is no real "strategy" in Evony. Battle mechanics are codified in machine code and the random element of chance, or the ingenuity of the human mind, does not come into play. It is merely a numbers game, and the reality is, he who has the largest size army wins (generally speaking, if he knows how Evony's battle mechanics work)."

    LOL I've played using strategy and it's more fun when your opponent is online. I've read and learned and exprimented. Saddly with the current bot and toss wave after countless wave at an opponent, no stratagies work save to bot your opponents area with more bots and more often then they bot until they can't afford to play. However that is about as fun as painting chess pieces when you want to actually place chess.


    "About the only strategy that really exists is getting to know your opponent -- trying to find out when s/he is online and offline, so you can launch your attacks when s/he is not around to respond."

    If this is your idea of strategy you need to learn to play. imho game should freeze you when off line so long as no one had an attack inbound in 1.3 hours or less.

    [This is, IMO, one aspect of Evony I think turns the most people off to the game... Evony is a 24/7/365 game, yet doesn't really give you the tools to manage your cities on a 24/7/365 basis. Just because you are sleeping doesn't mean if your city was under attack you wouldn't be woken up by an aid, would it?]



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MichDry
    Buy a hero for $10 per 100 levels up to 300

    "You can buy items from the shop now that will level up your hero."
    ya but who can realistically afford to buy enough of that crap to become competitive? Evony must maintain a free player balance that's not far behind a reasonable player pay balance. You can't balance a game for people who spend $1000+ a year.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MichDry
    Make a new item that lets you change a hero's primary attribute from int/politics/attack to a different one.

    "You can do this now by redistributing points."

    Ya let me go get my 30+ holy waters for that hero I just spent a few hundred on to get to level 300



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MichDry
    Secondary accounts, not sure how to handle these since some people actually do have a family member or two who play from the same computer

    I have a father and 2 sons in my alliance who play. How do you deal with them?

    I believe I addressed this. If they play accounts that have multiple cities they'd get a bonus that someone who played a 1city account with all iron mines to feed a main accout.

    While my ideas may not be perfect, they are better then current system when used together and I unlike you have actually tried to post reasonable suggestions to bring balance to the game instead of off handedly dismissed anything suggested with falsehoods and misdirections.

    To me a fair game makes for a great game where one's wits seperate them from the others. However it seems many players want the status que because they fear if they have to actualy play with tactics they'd loose time and again.

    tent pig why don't you post solutions and try and solve the problem with us instead of do nothing more then fight to keep the current game problems in the game as is.
    tx
    Soulbreach of MLIair

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    testpig you redirect and misrepresent well, so I'll point out the errors I think You've made and critisism without offering solutions speaks ill of anyone who uses such a tactic in a debate.
    There are no redirections or misrepresentations in my posting... merely my own opinions in response to your opinion.


    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    All games have a boreing part. This is about having balance in war and making stragagies worth something.
    The basic premise of your statement is a fallacy... Wars are not balanced.

    Or, put another way: life isn't fair.


    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    Again you're missing the point on purpose we're talking about a regular player topping out with roughly 100k archers
    ...and once again, life isn't fair. There are people (like me) on Evony who play a few hours a day at most. There are other people who play for hours upon hours day after day. Those people have far more prestige and army sizes than I do, because they can sit and launch 400 lvl 5 NPC runs a day.

    That's just the way it is. You either accept it, and find a way to deal with it, or you go back to playing Runescape.


    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    and some layers in it per city and then you have those who play a lot who can double it and then you have the insane 300+ heroes who can farm 10's like I farm 5's I know because I'm getting into farming 10's and they've paid for me since I broke 200 attack.
    I haven't found a viable way to farm lvl 10's for resources. If you have, please share the knowledge.

    By viable way, I mean where I can farm lvl 10's in such a way that the resources I gain far outweigh the resources I lose to regenerate the troops that I lose.

    With my ATK 260 hero I see loses of about 5k troops. The 600k iron/stone/lumber I get from the farming isn't enough to regenerate the troops -- You can regenerate ~1700 archers w/ 600k resources. Even with proper rainbows I see loses of ~2k archers.


    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    So you want those who are non cheaters to not farm the nuubs yet it's ok for the botters and such to farm the non cheaters? As for the pats on the back. You're telling me your server discussion threads never have threads and posts about who's better and which alliance is?
    I don't think I said anything in the above quote. I stated I haven't experienced firsthand what you stated, nor do I see any reason to be degrading to another player who has less experience than I do. None of which has to do with whether or not I would attack them.

    Frankly, I don't attack some players because they're too small to be worth the time and aggravation. Others I want to "build up" so I can use them as a Walmart at some point.


    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    Ahh excusing something by saying it's like that all over. Hmm last time I checked when I played chess niether me nor my opponent added extra queens and bishops to the game when the judge and other wasn't looking. Perhaps where you play games cheating isn't only allowed but expected.
    Nobody's adding extra queens w/o going thru the troop creation procedure (i.e. 1 archers = x lumber y stone and z food). If you're aware of some 'cheat' which allows people to instataneously create troops, please inform the moderators.

    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    I've learned how to do it and my best attack hero is under 260. You need to do mroe then bot if you're a top player and don't know how to farm 10's. I even know of a few people who bot 10's
    Please dazzle us with your brilliance and do tell.


    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    So we must all learn to be like you and learn to avoid wars in a war game?
    One "strategy" in war is to avoid war to begin with.


    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    LOL I've played using strategy and it's more fun when your opponent is online.
    I stand by my previous statement... There is no real "strategy" in Evony.


    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    If this is your idea of strategy you need to learn to play. imho game should freeze you when off line so long as no one had an attack inbound in 1.3 hours or less.
    There is no strategy in Evony because you are not playing against another human -- you are playing against a computer that computes your troop losses based on a hard-coded algorithm.


    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    ya but who can realistically afford to buy enough of that crap to become competitive?
    It isn't my fault you can't afford it.... I am merely pointing out that it already exists.


    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    You can't balance a game for people who spend $1000+ a year.
    I agree. Then why does Evony have an "auto-cents" option for $3,000 per month?


    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    Ya let me go get my 30+ holy waters for that hero I just spent a few hundred on to get to level 300
    Like it said... you may not like it because you can't afford it... but the option does already exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by MichDry View Post
    I unlike you have actually tried to post reasonable suggestions to bring balance to the game instead of off handedly dismissed anything suggested with falsehoods and misdirections.
    I don't read anything in your posting that is reasonable. You sound like one of those liberals in the USA who believes it is necessary to give every kid who plays baseball a trophy -- even if the kid's team comes in dead last -- out of some sense of "fairness" (or, in your words, "balance").

    To me, it sounds like you're PO'd that you're not one of the "top players", and rather than accepting the fact that your inability to achieve that standing is due to your own inherent shortcomings, you'd like to find ways to blame others (or the system) for it.

    Just my 3 cents, adjusted for inflation.

    To me a fair game makes for a great game where one's wits seperate them from the others. However it seems many players want the status que because they fear if they have to actualy play with tactics they'd loose time and again.

    tent pig why don't you post solutions and try and solve the problem with us instead of do nothing more then fight to keep the current game problems in the game as is.
    tx[/QUOTE]

  7. #7

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    Some interesting ideas were raised in this post.

    I think that group 1 will never get very far, because this isn't the SIMs, this is an active war game that has no log off time ~ with the exception of vacation mode which costs money, so if these people are looking for the SIMs they are better off with a tycoon type game, or actually playing the SIMs. These people just don't belong here, wrong game, but they do provide many resources for plunders. If Evony decides that they want to be WoW and cater to the masses this is something that they will need to rethink, but until then, I don't feel bad for these people because they chose the wrong game. It's a free game, and chances are they didn't spend any money playing, and are only out a little bit of time to discover that this is in fact not the SIMs.

    Group number two can do better than you think with a little planning. They know when they will be on next, and can que up troop builds and wall defenses depending on their offline time. They can plan large builds, and long research projects to complete within a few hours of the time they will log in with the exception of say the week it takes for archery 10.

    I agree that something needs to be done about the bots, and you have some good ideas; however, most people who write the bot programs can figure their way around these things in other situations.

    The point is, the creators of evony want money. This whole game is not designed to be free, or even fair, but rather a game that you can choose your spending. Without being a lucky roller with the amulet it is impossible to finish all of your lvl ten quests without spending a dime. I'm not saying you can't have a good amount of prestige, but with the reduction in medal drops in game, chances of advancing too far are nil. I honestly think that evony could add in game ads, restore medal drop rates and make more money.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by jellybeans View Post
    I honestly think that evony could add in game ads, restore medal drop rates and make more money.
    Yes... I agree completely... I would much rather than a more competitive game where you can "win" the items needed to advance, and deal with watching "in-line ads".

  9. #9
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    Jeebuz, gianormous( giant & enormous.. :P) opening post..
    But iliked the 1st part about the different tiers of players. Your right, but most people assume that those that play 16+ hours or so a day automatically bot, because they seem to never die or step away from the computer for some fresh it seems like almost. Some people are just persistent, whilst others are just flat out cheaters. I agree, botting isn't fair to some extent, but the food/farming issue needs to be addressed. Maybe Evony doesn't realize the reason so many players have either quit or turned to botting is because of the almost never-ending amount of food needed to survive. Of course nobody wants to give up their massive army because with numbers comes strength, and the point of the game is to dominate, correct? But Evony needs to realize that the ones complaining aren't just noobs, they're the players that have been playing since the days of Civony. The loyal, customers/players are the ones that put the Evony name out there. These players are your fanbase and cashcows. And I understand that there is money to be made, but with quality come quantity. If you improve the game, more people will be wanting to play, thus making it more competitive and more customers buying cents.
    Last edited by APC; 11-23-2009 at 04:31 PM.

    Retired from Evony 1/9/10.

  10. #10

    Thumbs down Army sizes

    1. The top players have found ways to increase armies to a point no one can attack and even think of winning.
    Solution:
    The troops have a predetermined value already. Therefore limit the total value that can be allowed in a single barrack. This will limit the overall size of the players army.

    Increase the output of the resources from the fields in the city example: food triple output, lumber, stone and iron double output.

    On player make npc's limit number that can be made and delete them after 7 days so they have to recapture
    Henry

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