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Thread: A query.

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  1. #1

    Default A query.

    So...this is totally a hypothetical situation. Nothing below is in any way related to anything that has ever happened to me or anyone I know. I will however, relate the question in first person, to make the explanation easier.

    I played Evony for several months, and loved it. I spend $100 on the game and reached a point that I was satisfied with, and decided to leave the game. I gave someone my log in email and PW several months ago, because I was not interested in playing the account anymore. It's against the rules, I'm aware.

    The person I gave my account to was a full time player with multiple accounts who ran the bot 24/7 in order to keep up with daily maintenance. The agreement was that the new owner of the account would not attack anyone in my alliance. The new owner put more money on the account after they began to play it full time. I logged on this evening to find them attacking my alliance. The account I logged in on is new account, registered from a different email address, technically making me a multi-accounter. It's against the rules, I'm aware.

    I logged back onto the original account, changed the PW and attacked back at the person who had my account (their other account). They were online and reinforced, so I quickly stopped. Now their alliance is bombarding me with whispers and mails (and attacks!) claiming they are.... lol....just a sec....LOL

    ....going to file charges of credit card fraud against me. They claim that the account was sold over ebay from me to the new owner. This is entirely untrue. There is zero evidence suggesting that any such transaction took place. They also claim that since the new owner put $$$ on the account, I broke the law when I logged on and changed the PW.

    Foxy....will you give everyone a quick summary as to what happens when people break the rules, as in this hypothetical example? I'm not entirely aware of how and why and who and what, but I'm certain that any transfer of accounts violates the ToS. Could you give us all a quick recap?

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    I would be happy to:

    First of all, transfer of an account by selling, buying, gifting, "accidentally" leaving the login information on a scrap of paper stuck under a park bench, or any other method is a violation of our Terms & Conditions and Evony does not honor such transfers.

    Second, I'd be very interested to see how someone would press charges of credit card fraud for an illegal transaction. Let me test this: I'm gonna call the police and say that my drug dealer totally ripped me off and this cocaine is NOT pure. Someone bail me out of jail please? An account transfer isn't going to net you jail time, but we'll probably just ban the account to stop the fight and ebay will laugh you off the server.

    Now, if the original owner of the account should exercise the "Forgot Password" feature and retrieve his account, since Evony acknowledges no transfer of the account, he's well within his rights. The "purchaser" just got sacked, and it's his own fault for violating the T&C. We'll not give him any sympathy.

    And finally, if the original owner should happen to be able to provide any kind of proof of botting or other illegal activities on the various accounts in question, we'd likely go on a banning spree and send everyone packing. And no, we don't really care if you maxed out your credit card on the accounts. You cheat, you get banned.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxyBunny View Post
    I would be happy to:

    First of all, transfer of an account by selling, buying, gifting, "accidentally" leaving the login information on a scrap of paper stuck under a park bench, or any other method is a violation of our Terms & Conditions and Evony does not honor such transfers.

    Second, I'd be very interested to see how someone would press charges of credit card fraud for an illegal transaction. Let me test this: I'm gonna call the police and say that my drug dealer totally ripped me off and this cocaine is NOT pure. Someone bail me out of jail please? An account transfer isn't going to net you jail time, but we'll probably just ban the account to stop the fight and ebay will laugh you off the server.

    Now, if the original owner of the account should exercise the "Forgot Password" feature and retrieve his account, since Evony acknowledges no transfer of the account, he's well within his rights. The "purchaser" just got sacked, and it's his own fault for violating the T&C. We'll not give him any sympathy.

    And finally, if the original owner should happen to be able to provide any kind of proof of botting or other illegal activities on the various accounts in question, we'd likely go on a banning spree and send everyone packing. And no, we don't really care if you maxed out your credit card on the accounts. You cheat, you get banned.
    Is this maybe stepping outside your jurisdiction in making rulings on in-game disputes?

    I apologize if I'm wrong... I'm not really sure what your role as a super moderator entails, but I would guess it sticks to stuff on the forum.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBQ_Sauce View Post
    Is this maybe stepping outside your jurisdiction in making rulings on in-game disputes?

    I apologize if I'm wrong... I'm not really sure what your role as a super moderator entails, but I would guess it sticks to stuff on the forum.
    Err Sauce
    I believe Foxy was quoting the actual Terms of Service we all agreed to upon joining Evony/ Civony ( just for you long term players).
    If your not sure of what you agreed to you better go re - read them

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBQ_Sauce View Post
    Is this maybe stepping outside your jurisdiction in making rulings on in-game disputes?

    I apologize if I'm wrong... I'm not really sure what your role as a super moderator entails, but I would guess it sticks to stuff on the forum.
    Perhaps it falls outside my jurisdiction as a supermod, but I don't think it falls outside the jurisdiction of my paid position with Evony. Besides, I'm not making a ruling on an in-game dispute. I'm rendering an opinion, as asked to do, on a hypothetical situation. BBQ, dear, darling, sweetheart, don't fuss with me.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxyBunny View Post
    Second, I'd be very interested to see how someone would press charges of credit card fraud for an illegal transaction.
    A transaction which violates Evony's User Agreement does not make it an "illegal" transaction. An illegal transaction is a transaction which is illegal in the eyes of the law.

    Evony states it is against the UA to "sell" an account. User A sells account to User B. While User A has violated Evony's UA, User A has not broken any laws (assuming there are no laws which would prohibit such a transfer within A or B's jurisdiction.)

    On the other hand, if User A hired User B to rob a bank, *that* would be an example of an illegal transaction, because the act of robbing a bank is codified in criminal statutes as an illegal act.

    Evony certain could ban both A and B for violating their UA. However, neither A nor B would go to prison for an "illegal" transaction, because no law was violated.

  7. #7

    Default

    Thanks for the quick and timely response, Madame Foxy.

    I'll be sure to come directly to you with all my future queries regarding the legality of Evony and players actions.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    LOL Gosh, thanks Mont.

    I have to wonder if that's a compliment or a threat....

  9. #9

    Default

    Interesting. What about the multitude of accounts sold on eBay and other sites since April? Evony doesn't seem to step in and stop the auctions as some game companies do. Of the many sold, how many have been re-taken by the original owners of the account here in the game? I find it unlikely that there have been no prior complaints of this nature and if the stance that Evony takes is that the original owner has the rightful claim in their eyes, then it should be better posted, and a notice given to the auction sites that transfer is prohibited.

    Also, eBay regards the sales as legal transactions and so do the CC companies, the goods, though they are virtual in nature, are still a legal commodity. Even if Evony chose not to recognize the purchaser's rights, the original owner would still have committed a fraudulent action in selling the account for money, while holding the intent to reclaim it. They did not lease the account for a specified term, they *sold* it.

    - just a bystander going hmmmmm

  10. #10

    Default

    Neither. I was just impressed by the way I sang out your name and you instantly appeared. It's reassuring.

    edit: Oh, I guess I have more questions.

    So, in order to prove someone is running the bot....

    How trustworthy are screenshots of in game mails, whispers or gmail/gchat conversation? They're easily shooped. Can you actually use screenshots to form a case?
    Last edited by montedison; 11-23-2009 at 11:30 PM.

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