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Thread: Paying Customer's Views

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Exclamation Paying Customer's Views

    I saw an archive posting at the top of the General Discussion forum and got curious and read it. The last post in the thread was from Evony Representative Dawnseeker who writes:

    "...If we didn't sell Coins, we would have to charge a subscription fee or there wouldn't be a game at all.

    Servers aren't free. Data service is not free. Technicians aren't free. Support staff aren't free. Game developers aren't free. Artists aren't free. Programmers aren't free.

    QED: We need some form of income to pay for everything. "

    I only bring this post of Dawnseekers' up because I find it humorous that he openly admits that paying customers such as myself and others, in essence pay for the game to be run. If I read his words correctly, it would to me seem that he is stating how paying customers keep the game free for entire world community. Does this mean that without paying customers there would be no Evony? If I am reading and interpreting this correctly, then I beg the question ... Why are paying customers treated so poorly? I for one have spent enough on this game in my 3 months of play to privately support an interns salary for an entire month. Why do I get treated so poorly?

    If paying customers are so important to Evony, then why is it that we do not get a strong voice in the community? I for one have many things positive and negative about Evony I would love to share with a staff member that is caring and willing to listen with an open mind. I really enjoy this game and want to see Evony improve and adapt, in order to continue providing a fun, reliable, and relatively fair gaming environment for all members and users, paying or non-paying.

    Please, positive constructional criticism only.

  2. #2

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    We're always listening. In what way have you been treated poorly?
    Legendary Hero

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnseeker View Post
    We're always listening. In what way have you been treated poorly?
    I really have to disagree. you made that clear yesterday when responding to my post, which I took time to specifically write out so that you all took it for what it was, an issue, why it was a problem, and a possible way to fix it. Your response implied/said A) players views are not important, B) you don't care C) you brought up Age2 which had absolutely nothing to do with the topic

    I'm sure you are a fine person in RL but at least try to respect points that are brought up. I know you read hundreds of forums and probably get many more complaints. But just don't respond if you don't care to put actual thought into it. Also, do not take that as " you wont do it my way so you stink". I don't care if you take our suggestions or not, just let us know you briefly considered it.


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnseeker View Post
    We're always listening. In what way have you been treated poorly?
    Just random things I have thought of ( In no particular order ):

    1. Not given proper updates on server status'.
    2. Utter lack of concern about in game issues.
    3. Serious lack of freedom of speech on forums.
    4. No compassion or compensation to inconveniences produced by Evony.
    5. Nearly a complete lack of customer support.
    6. Absolute unwillingness to place ones self in the customers position.
    7. Non-Verbal threats (such as if you do such and such we will ban you, instead of "how can we help to resolve you situation")

    uhh, I will be sure to jot down other ways as they flow into my mind, then post them at a later time. If others would like to add in their feelings, I encourage all members to express their feelings (in the form of facts or positive criticism)

    EDIT: PS: I would like to add, out of my entire post and all that I have said, the only thing you care to discuss is "In what way have you been treated poorly?". Granted this is the most important point in my post, and I do appreciate that you take the time to even at the least discuss this topic. However, how can you overlook all the rest of what I have written about? It is precisely moments like that that cause irritation amongst the Evony community. Your skills at deflecting are unparalleled. I have seen no other customer service representative with the ability of deflection that you have.
    Last edited by icer412; 01-22-2010 at 04:34 AM. Reason: Extra info

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnseeker View Post
    We're always listening. In what way have you been treated poorly?
    Dawnseeker,

    I am not here to blast you but I am truly unhappy with evony. First you force us to merge 7 servers together onto SS1. I didn't have a say in this, my alliance and likely my server did not have a say in this. We went from being a #12 alliance with 75 active members (active meaning every day or two they were online) to being #165 now with 21 members that not all are active.

    This merge killed our alliance. The factors that contributed were losing all the level 10 valleys people had, the lag, the inability to log in, losing troops and cities due to the previous two items, and you put us on with people that had been playing much longer. My max attack hero is around 400 and these guys have 700+ attack heros. It is very hard to compete against this.

    In addition to that you know my circumstances. I have paid evony a ton of money since I started playing a few months ago. The merge killed this game for me and my alliance. I started on a newer server to get a fair shake and simply wanted my items and coins I paid for transferred to the new server. If I had stayed on Server 21 I wouldn't have needed to do this. Evony refused. I threatened the charge backs and evony ignored my repeated emails and tickets to resolve the issue but eventually did the charge back since evony ignored the paying customer.

    The result is my account was banned. I contacted your legal department and they promised as soon as I closed the charge backs my account would be restored and items transferred. Since this was all I wanted in the first place I agreed and immediately closed them. That was 6 (SIX) days ago and my account is still not unlocked. How is this taking care of the paying customer? I have sent at least 6 emails to get the status and every day am told another day without any explanation as to the problem. How is this taking care of the paying customer?

    I understand there is nothing free and evony would not be here if people didn't spend money. I get it. I am in business, have owned my own business and am taking MBA courses, I understand but evony has a terrible customer service department. Evony did not acknowledge the hundreds of forum posts regarding the SS1 issues for over a week, possibly 2. This is not taking care of the paying customer.

    Taking care of the customer means you coming to us and telling us there is a problem and we are working on it. It also means giving updates and projections for resolving the issues. It also means that when your people or equipment mess up you compensate them.

    I stopped playing Star Wars Galaxies because of the poor customer service that Sony Online Entertainment has. I came here because a friend from there came here. My first week or so there was a server issue on server 21 that prevented us from logging in for a few hours. Evony sent a mail regarding the problem, apologized and gave out a compensation pack. That impressed me and made me want to stay. Unfortunately whoever did that must no longer be an employee because that was the one and only time I saw that level of customer service.

    Yet on SS1 the problem is much more severe and is having a significant impact and no system mail apologizing, no compensation pack, nothing to make up for the headaches. Compensation packs cost you nothing, they are virtual but they mean something to the inconvenienced players.

    My son lost a city, his resource stash, and 400 - 500K troops because he was being attacked and he couldn't log on to the game. He is not the only one. His story is multiplied many times across the server. What has evony done to take care of him or compensate him for his losses due to the server having issues? Nothing. That is why he quit and went to another game, that is why over 30 people in my alliance quit and that is why hundreds of people will or have quit SS1.

    This merge was not wanted, the impact of 7 servers on one server was not properly researched or tested by evony and we are experiencing the effects now. Evony needs to be more on the ball apologizing for the problem, providing updates on their progress every day (it takes just a few minutes), stopping new accounts to be started on SS1, and getting compensation packages out (just take into consideration the large losses people have, I doubt 10 amulets and a truce agreement are going to cut it).

    I pay for evony and I am not happy.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krandor View Post
    .......This merge was not wanted, the impact of 7 servers on one server was not properly researched or tested by evony and we are experiencing the effects now.

    That's the thing. You ARE the test. It was the same when they made WN1, and WN2, but by the time they were making WN3, WN4 and N1, they had the hang of it.

    Obviously I understand where you are coming from in regards to logging in, lag etc... I played Civony.

    Not that it will comfort you at all, but what Evony learns from SS1 will make future SS servers better for those players.
    No One Knows Your Name

    Officer of BAMF, Server 124
    Quote Originally Posted by trogdor1316 View Post
    I find it ironic that these spambots find it easier to post in the right section than most people with 1 post.
    NA4LIFE

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by icer412 View Post
    Just random things I have thought of ( In no particular order ):

    1. Not given proper updates on server status'.
    2. Utter lack of concern about in game issues.
    3. Serious lack of freedom of speech on forums.
    4. No compassion or compensation to inconveniences produced by Evony.
    5. Nearly a complete lack of customer support.
    6. Absolute unwillingness to place ones self in the customers position.
    7. Non-Verbal threats (such as if you do such and such we will ban you, instead of "how can we help to resolve you situation")

    uhh, I will be sure to jot down other ways as they flow into my mind, then post them at a later time. If others would like to add in their feelings, I encourage all members to express their feelings (in the form of facts or positive criticism)

    EDIT: PS: I would like to add, out of my entire post and all that I have said, the only thing you care to discuss is "In what way have you been treated poorly?". Granted this is the most important point in my post, and I do appreciate that you take the time to even at the least discuss this topic. However, how can you overlook all the rest of what I have written about? It is precisely moments like that that cause irritation amongst the Evony community. Your skills at deflecting are unparalleled. I have seen no other customer service representative with the ability of deflection that you have.
    Fair points, all.

    Let me begin by disclaiming. Evony is a startup company and the game itself is less than a year old. We're also getting started with a wildly popular massively-multiplayer online game, whereas most gaming companies with anywhere near our number of users got started in the days before internet gaming, and certainly before the explosion of MMOs. Not only that, but we weren't prepared for just how popular Evony would be. I mean we knew it was great, but we didn't know just how many people would agree and just how quickly! This puts us "behind the 8-ball" in terms of staffing, both for customer service and bug reports.

    We're actually very pleased that our players have such high expectations of us. Players in many fly-by-night games would just accept bugs and poor service without much thought before moving on to the next game. We're glad that our players tend to see us as a serious, customer-oriented operation and that they make demands on us accordingly.

    I assure you that our goal is to meet that demand, and -- more than that -- to exceed player expectations.

    You're right that we have been delinquent in some areas, but I promise it is not for lack of trying. We have been slow to respond to some in-game issues, but much of that is because they will be resolved or become irrelevant in Age II. Yes, I'm talking about Age II again, but its a big deal and players will find a lot of bugs and other issues resolved when Age II is released.

    This is another reason that certain issues may be put on the back burner for right now. As a startup company we simply don't have the staff to dedicate to hunting down every bug and resolving every problem that arises. We try to fight fires as they come and deal with major issues. Sometimes that means some of the small things get lost in the shuffle. We know that nothing seems small when it is happening to you and we are constantly working to improve and expand our service. I would like all of our players to feel that they matter and are taken care of.

    We try to give compensation when service outages are extreme and out of the ordinary. It is simply not feasible to give out compensation to every player, every time something happens to them. Once again, we focus on the large issues and the fact that we have given out compensation on numerous occasions speaks to the fact that we do care about our players and that our goal is to make you all happy.

    If players violate the game rules, they will be banned. We have banned very few accounts on the first violation, hoping that a warning suspension will serve to let players know that we're on to them and that they should modify their behavior. If they continue to cheat, we have to ban them, both to make sure that future threats are taken seriously, and to protect the players who don't cheat.

    On the forums we welcome free speech and -- yes! -- criticism as long as the tone is not incendiary and the forum rules are followed. You may not like all the rules, but they are there for a reason and we constantly struggle to toe the line between freedom and limitations. You may be surprised to learn that discussions on whether or not to delete a thread or issue an infraction are frequent in the moderator chat channel. We want to give players as much freedom as possible within the framework of the rules that have been establish to promote this game.

    It would not be in any company's interest to allow speech on its forums which is likely to be harmful to its revenue. Microsoft won't allow you to go to its forums and write about how terrible Windows 7 is and demand that everyone reading the post should return the software for a refund. Neither will we allow such posts on our forums. Allowing such posts would not only be bad business, but it would be bad for our players. Bad business means less revenue, which means less staff and less production.

    That said, we invite honest criticism and open debate as long as the tone is proper. If things turn into flamefests, they will be shut down. That's just how things go around here.

    Our customers do have a strong voice in the community. Much of what we do is based on player feedback. Most of what we do isn't. Its not because we don't value feedback, but because the developers have a creative vision for the game that is both awesome and successful. You're not being ignored, but a game developed solely by the players would be pretty boring. Players love what we've done and we want to build on that success by incorporating your ideas into our vision. Its a team effort and, in many ways, every player is part of that team.

    Icer, you're well-spoken and intelligent. I would love to hear your ideas. I would love to hear anyone's thoughtful ideas. Bring it on! I promise you, we read this stuff!

    (TLDR version: I love cake).
    Last edited by Dawnseeker; 01-22-2010 at 07:58 AM.
    Legendary Hero

  8. #8

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    Dawnseeker.

    That is the best reply I have seen from Evony. I did not know the Evony history so it is something good to know. Of course we don't like that our every issue may not be addressed at times but at least I for one have some insight as to why.

    Now, just get them to transfer my items and unlock my account otherwise I will continue to be bored at work and post randomly throughout the forums.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krandor View Post
    Dawnseeker,

    I am not here to blast you but I am truly unhappy with evony. First you force us to merge 7 servers together onto SS1. I didn't have a say in this, my alliance and likely my server did not have a say in this. We went from being a #12 alliance with 75 active members (active meaning every day or two they were online) to being #165 now with 21 members that not all are active.

    This merge killed our alliance. The factors that contributed were losing all the level 10 valleys people had, the lag, the inability to log in, losing troops and cities due to the previous two items, and you put us on with people that had been playing much longer. My max attack hero is around 400 and these guys have 700+ attack heros. It is very hard to compete against this.

    In addition to that you know my circumstances. I have paid evony a ton of money since I started playing a few months ago. The merge killed this game for me and my alliance. I started on a newer server to get a fair shake and simply wanted my items and coins I paid for transferred to the new server. If I had stayed on Server 21 I wouldn't have needed to do this. Evony refused. I threatened the charge backs and evony ignored my repeated emails and tickets to resolve the issue but eventually did the charge back since evony ignored the paying customer.

    The result is my account was banned. I contacted your legal department and they promised as soon as I closed the charge backs my account would be restored and items transferred. Since this was all I wanted in the first place I agreed and immediately closed them. That was 6 (SIX) days ago and my account is still not unlocked. How is this taking care of the paying customer? I have sent at least 6 emails to get the status and every day am told another day without any explanation as to the problem. How is this taking care of the paying customer?

    I understand there is nothing free and evony would not be here if people didn't spend money. I get it. I am in business, have owned my own business and am taking MBA courses, I understand but evony has a terrible customer service department. Evony did not acknowledge the hundreds of forum posts regarding the SS1 issues for over a week, possibly 2. This is not taking care of the paying customer.

    Taking care of the customer means you coming to us and telling us there is a problem and we are working on it. It also means giving updates and projections for resolving the issues. It also means that when your people or equipment mess up you compensate them.

    I stopped playing Star Wars Galaxies because of the poor customer service that Sony Online Entertainment has. I came here because a friend from there came here. My first week or so there was a server issue on server 21 that prevented us from logging in for a few hours. Evony sent a mail regarding the problem, apologized and gave out a compensation pack. That impressed me and made me want to stay. Unfortunately whoever did that must no longer be an employee because that was the one and only time I saw that level of customer service.

    Yet on SS1 the problem is much more severe and is having a significant impact and no system mail apologizing, no compensation pack, nothing to make up for the headaches. Compensation packs cost you nothing, they are virtual but they mean something to the inconvenienced players.

    My son lost a city, his resource stash, and 400 - 500K troops because he was being attacked and he couldn't log on to the game. He is not the only one. His story is multiplied many times across the server. What has evony done to take care of him or compensate him for his losses due to the server having issues? Nothing. That is why he quit and went to another game, that is why over 30 people in my alliance quit and that is why hundreds of people will or have quit SS1.

    This merge was not wanted, the impact of 7 servers on one server was not properly researched or tested by evony and we are experiencing the effects now. Evony needs to be more on the ball apologizing for the problem, providing updates on their progress every day (it takes just a few minutes), stopping new accounts to be started on SS1, and getting compensation packages out (just take into consideration the large losses people have, I doubt 10 amulets and a truce agreement are going to cut it).

    I pay for evony and I am not happy.
    Krandor, just because you didn't see it as needed doesn't mean it wasn't needed.

    On every single one of the servers you listed the fighting had become stale for most people because most people knew that they had hundreds of miles between them and their nearest enemy.

    To see how stale the game had become all you have to do is look at all the guys with high prestige that have been inactive since the merge. Most of them didn't go inactive because of the server performance (some did). Most were already inactive and just keeping space in high ranked alliances to keep their alliances prestige up. There are still thousands of multi-accounts on the server for the very same reason though a lot of those use both accounts in war or in fighting.

    This merge might have killed off your alliance, and for that reason it sucks, but you really can't say it hasn't added a lot more "content" to the game.

    The server itself has been in horrible shape and any losses caused by that really suck. I too have lost a lot of troops and a few good heroes due to the server problems. The server seems to have gotten somewhat better over the last day or two so hopefully they are getting that worked out.

  10. #10

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    Dawnseeker it is nice to see a reply like this. I and many others still believe server 84 has been massively gipped. If you look at the server 84 threads you will see what the problems were and for how long they spanned. wE WERE EVEN TOLD WE WERE GONNA GET COMPENSATION (sorry hit caps button) for this problem, as there had problems spanning months, and a few weeks where you could not farm almost at all, or barely log in. many of us players lost 100 of thousands of troops, and worst yet the item won on my spins would on;y show up 1/2 the time. Then the server was fixed (went up and down a few times for a week but at least we could farm) I wrote a letter saying thankyou and we were happier. butwhen we asked about the compensation it was as if you guys were like well we fixed their server, screw em. The lag itself cost me a quite a bit of money, and no one answers my email pm's or ingame messages. I am still upset, and the only reason u have gotten more of my money is the stupid autocents thing, I cant figure out how to turn off.

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